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General and Everything Else => The Games and other Sierra Adventure stuff => Topic started by: Threepwang on September 24, 2020, 07:35:08 AM

Title: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Threepwang on September 24, 2020, 07:35:08 AM
Hello everyone!

*I am sorry for my bad English!
I am a new members and "Well, guess what?"
I am a fan of Sierra games!

I think that we should to translate in all languages the Sierra classic games to make them accessible for players.

I want to translate Space Quest 3 in french.
And I am looking (search) for an SCI engine expert.
I am having some difficulty with accented letters French.
Does anyone know if there is a code OEM in SCI Compagnon?
Because SCI Compagnon is not include OEM Sierra.
It is ANSI and my computer is a ANSI (ASCII) Default Encoding.
For example with german game:
"The terminator's invisibility belt is now completely out of power.%GDer Energievorrat des Tarngrtels ist jetzt v”llig ersch”pft."
==> "The terminator's invisibility belt is now completely out of power.%GDer Energievorrat des Tarngrtels ist jetzt völlig erschöpft."
You see, (ö) does not appear in words "völlig" and "erschöpft."
Screenshot:
https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/09/24/200924123901494297.png (https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/09/24/200924123901494297.png)
It is a big probleme for VOCAB file.
I need to translate this file with accented French letters (OEM code).

"Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope !"

My best,
Threepwang
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Kawa on September 24, 2020, 12:07:50 PM
SCI, targeting DOS and being written mostly in DOS, uses ASCII-7 for American releases and DOS-437 for European releases. The font, if you look closely, is DOS-437 with the line and box characters removed.

But the game and engine don't really care what code page is used.

(Aside: I like to call them by number because "OEM" and "ANSI" are somewhat confusing terms. "ASCII-7" would comprise the first 128 characters, which DOS-437 and Windows-1252 add another 128 to.)

If you want SCI Companion (which uses Windows-1252) and the font (which is anything at all) to match, change the font. I have a bunch of them right here (https://helmet.kafuka.org/sci/fonts/) that I manually converted from DOS-437 to Windows-1252. Insert these fonts into a copy of SQ3 German, and you should be able to just type new lines in French, without worrying about encoding.
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Threepwang on September 25, 2020, 11:10:18 AM
@ Kawa;
Hi,
I modified the Sierra fonts from SQ3 (DOS-437 to Windows-1252).
I put the fonts in the game folder (SQ3).
I cannot edit the VOCAB.900 file.
I have no problem with SCR and TXT files.
Only with VOCAB.990.
https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/09/25/20092504575813357.png (https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/09/25/20092504575813357.png)
Thank you for your help!
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Threepwang on September 30, 2020, 10:27:28 AM
Continuation of my investigations ; I finally found the order file in German.
It is called VOCAB.910. I renamed this file to VOCAB.900 to try and transplant it into Space Quest 3.
But, I still have the same problem, I cannot edit the VOCAB.900 file with the accented French letters.

I also extracted the French vocabulary from Leisure Suit Larry 3 to try and transplant it into Space Quest 3.
But unfortunately it is too different. At the moment I'm still blocking  :'(
I took the example of discussions here : http://sciprogramming.com/community/index.php?topic=1781.15 (http://sciprogramming.com/community/index.php?topic=1781.15)
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: ZvikaZ on September 30, 2020, 01:52:07 PM
Hi.
That's a great idea, and I wish you luck!

2 friends of mine, and me, are about to finish Hebrew translation of SQ3.
We've already overcome all the technical problems.

If it's possible to translate to Hebrew, I'm sure it's possible to translate to French, which should be easier.
You might be interested to take a look at https://github.com/ZvikaZ/HebrewAdventure/ , to see the tools that I wrote for the tasks, and the translation files that we've got.
Currently these tools are tailored-made for my requirements, and even my specific environment; hopefully I will have time someday to make a general tool from them. However, they might help you overcome some of your problems.

Just be aware, that translating the texts in the "Texts" tab of SCICompanion isn't sufficient:
- There are text strings scattered in the scripts files (I have written a script that "export"s them all to a csv file; and another one then "import"s them back from the csv file; then you need to manually recompile in SCICompanion).
- There are texts drawn as pictures, in various "view"s
- You you'll probably need to modify the fonts, as you've already discussed
- The vocabulary by default needs to be 7 bits, I've overcome that problem with some hack, that probably works only in ScummVM, and not in Sierra's original interpreter (i.e., no Dosbox)
- There are items that are single word in English, but might be two words in French. I will give a Hebrew example - there is no word as 'anemometer' - it's called 'wind meter'. So, you need to take care of that.
- Furthermore, in Hebrew the grammar rules dictate to say "meter wind" instead of "wind meter", so I had to edit the grammar rules file, to make it aware of the Hebrew grammar.
- I also had to take care of the Right to Left display, instead of Left to Right - but that's no problem for European languages.
- There might be more issues, that I don't remember now...

All these issues can be solved, if you're ready to learn and investigate...
It'll be also easier to have some help from other French speaking Sierra fans who want to collaborate on this.

BTW,
First I built scripts that exported various things to csv file; then we created a Google Docs sheet with all the csvs, and the translation was done over there - it's much easier, allows collaboration, history, and more user-friendly for non-programmers; then I wrote a scripts that "import_all" (it's its name, IIRC), that downloads everythings from the Drive, runs the different "import" scripts, prompts to recompile in SCICompanion, and then copies the compiled files from SCICompanion.

I hope that you'll enjoy your Translation Quest!
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Threepwang on October 01, 2020, 10:00:16 AM
@ ZvikaZ;
Hi ZvikaZ,
Thank you for your explanations.
"Space Quest 3 is definitely an international game"!
I find difficult to explain my problem, because "I am hopeless when it comes to figuring out computer problems".
In addition my English is so poor.

- I have no problem with the "TEX" files:
https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/10/01/201001023817354205.jpg (https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/10/01/201001023817354205.jpg)

- I have no problem with the "SCRIPT" files:
https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/10/01/201001031155843459.jpg (https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/10/01/201001031155843459.jpg)

- I have no problem with the "WIEW" or "PIC" files:
https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/10/01/201001023816789655.jpg (https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/10/01/201001023816789655.jpg)

- Overall, SCI Compagnon accepts accented letters French fonts in the game :
https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/10/01/2010010421355601.png (https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/10/01/2010010421355601.png)
- Except in the "vocab.900" :
https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/10/01/20100102381221320.jpg (https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/10/01/20100102381221320.jpg)
* SCI Compagnon refuses accented fonts in "vocab.900".
* I don't know how to add accented letters French fonts in "vocab.900".
* Example with "strange". I can write "etrange" but not "étrange".
* Do you know a solution for this problem?
I can not find a solution and I am lost  :(
If you have created a tool, of course I am more than interrested!

Thank you for your time.
Thank you very much!
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: ZvikaZ on October 01, 2020, 10:26:46 AM
Yes, I think I can help you.
I can't fix SCICompanion (maybe @Kawa can help here?), but I can give you two python scripts. You'll run the first one on the original vocab file, and it will create a csv file (which can be edited with Excel, or even better, with a text editor).
You'll make all your changes to the csv file. When you want, you'll run the other Python script, it will take the csv file, and build a new vocab file.
SCICompanion doesn't need to know about the new Vocab file! (as long as you only translate existing words, not adding new ones)
Just put it in your game directory (or PATCHES directory), and the game will be aware of the new translations.


Does it make sense to you?
(Do you know how to run Python scripts?)

BTW,
I'm assuming you're using the hybrid English German version, from Sierra. Am I right?
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Threepwang on October 01, 2020, 11:00:46 AM
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: ZvikaZ on October 01, 2020, 11:30:57 AM
IIRC, the German version has different vocab file format than the American versions.
That's means, that before I will help you, you'll need to choose the version you're going to base your translation on.
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Threepwang on October 01, 2020, 12:01:12 PM
@ ZvikaZ;
Yes ZvikaZ, you are right. I choose the US version.
I think that's quite a logical answer.
Because the German version is a hybrid rather rare.
"Thank you so much".
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: ZvikaZ on October 02, 2020, 02:34:21 AM
I've modified a little my script, to make it more suitable for you.

1.
Do you know how to use Git?

If yes, you need to clone 'https://github.com/ZvikaZ/HebrewAdventure.git', switch to branch 'sq3_french', and use the two files 'tools/vocab_import.py' and 'tools/vocab.csv'

If not, download these two files to some directory:
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ZvikaZ/HebrewAdventure/sq3_french/tools/vocab_import.py
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ZvikaZ/HebrewAdventure/sq3_french/tools/vocab.csv

2.
As you see, I've already created the csv file for you. Note, that it has a column of rooms. That's helpful for few reasons:
- Context. In some words, it's helpful to understand where it's used, to check the exact nuance.
- There are a lot of words, that aren't used in any room! No need to translate them
- The words are sorted according to room usage; I find it nicer, to be able to translate all the words required for the first rooms, check that they are working well, and then continue

3.
Open the csv file, and translate 'look' (or some other simple verb, so you can check right away that it's working).
The translation is just another word(s) in the entry.
For example:
Code: [Select]
"examine | gaze | inspect | look | observe | peer | scan | stare | view | בחן | הבט | צפה | השקף | שוף | התבונן | הסתכל | תביט | תסתכל | בדוק | תבדוק | תשקיף | תבחן | תצפה | תתבונן","IMPERATIVE_VERB | NOUN","1140","in 000, 002, 003, 004, 005, 006, 007, 008, 009, 010, 011, 012, 013, 014, 015, 018, 025, 027, 028, 029, 040, 041, 042, 043, 044, 045, 046, 047, 048, 049, 050, 051, 052, 053, 054, 060, 069, 070, 071, 072, 073, 074, 075, 080, 081, 085, 086, 090, 091, 092, 093, 094, 095, 290, 420, 421, 470, 501, 503, 600, 690, 700, 702, 703","","",""

4.
It's legal to have several '|' in raw.
You can write comments in the columns after the 'rooms' column. It's very helpful.

5.
Now, install Python (Google it).

6.
Open the 'vocab_import.py' script in an editor.
Replace the
Code: [Select]
ENCODING = 'windows-1255'line with whatever encoding you're using.

7.
Run the script (depends on your installation - maybe just click it in Windows Explorer, maybe run in a 'cmd' prompt something like:
Code: [Select]
python vocab_import.py)

8.
It will create two files in the local directory:
'vocab.000' - should be used by ScummVM (you can't use original Sierra SCI in DosBOX anymore, sorry...)
'vocab.900' - if you want SCICompanion to know about your changes.

You can ignore for now the .900 file.
Make a copy of the game aside.
In one directory, you'll continue to work with SCICompanion.
In the other directory, you'll run ScummVM to play the game (after copying patch files from the first directory).

9.
Copy the 'vocab.000' created by the script to the ScummVM game directory.

10.
Play the game and check that it understands your translated word.

11.
Next time, you need to repeat steps 3,7,9 and 10.

12.
Enjoy, and it's OK to ask questions if something isn't clear...


Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Threepwang on October 02, 2020, 07:12:42 AM
@ ZvikaZ;
Hi ZvikaZ,
Yes I'm member of Git, okay, it's in the box.
I'd need to look at all of this pretty carefully.
But I already know that I'll get back to you  ;D
I can not thank you enough!
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Threepwang on January 05, 2021, 08:25:27 AM
@ ZvikaZ
Hello ZvikaZ,
I am currently working on the scr files. Do you advise me to work directly on the scr files your patch in Hebrew or on my game?
Because I noticed that you have invalidated many words:
https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2021/01/05/210105021243601760.jpg (https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2021/01/05/210105021243601760.jpg)

Happy New Year to you and to everyone members of sciprogramming !!
My best !
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: ZvikaZ on January 05, 2021, 02:36:21 PM
Hi.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure that I understood your question, and I'm not sure what do you mean by saying that I've invalidated many words.

Anyway, if I do understand correctly - certainly - don't use my Hebrew patch files.
It's better to base your translation on clean fresh English SQ3.

You indeed might take inspiration from my work, but don't use it directly.
Because of few reasons:
- It's better to have shorter path. Why have an English -> Hebrew -> French path, instead of English -> French? The longer the path you're going, more complications get involved, and more potential bugs.
- English to Hebrew is much more complicated than English to French - it's using a different font (while in French it's the same font, or maybe you'd just need to add few accented letters, but the majority will be the same)
- Even worse - Hebrew is written from Right to Left. Part of my code supports it, and it will be wrong if you'll base French on the Hebrew...

I've linked to my GitHub repo not for the SQ3 directory, but to the TOOLS directory.
Using these tool might help you.

Also note, that I haven't directly created any of these patch files - my tools did it.

Let me repeat the method that I've worked:
- My tools have extracted the strings, with small manual help
- The output of the previous step was an Excel file, uploaded to Google Drive
- The translation team have created the translation in the spreadsheet - not in SciCompanion, or similar tools
- My tools imported the spreadsheet from Google Drive, and created the required patch files (again, with small manual step, because SciCompanion cannot be run in batch mode, and a recompilation was required)

Good luck with your work, and don't hesitate to request further assistance.
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: ZvikaZ on January 06, 2021, 03:01:29 AM
Further thinking about it, you can just take the translation excel https://github.com/ZvikaZ/HebrewAdventure/raw/master/sq3/PATCHES/sq3.xlsx (https://github.com/ZvikaZ/HebrewAdventure/raw/master/sq3/PATCHES/sq3.xlsx) , ignore everything in Hebrew (or better - delete all the Hebrew...), and just translate it to French.
I will help you with creating the required patch files, after that.
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Threepwang on January 06, 2021, 08:40:19 PM
@ZvikaZ
'I read with great attention your guidance'. For the moment I am your first advice,
I translate the clean US version src files directly with Companion and my ANSI fonts in 256 char.
It's going pretty well. I am using your patch for comparison.

At first I did not understand why your scr files are altered as much. But, I think it comes from your tools.
For the moment I only work with Compagnion.

I check every change in the game. I'm not a programmer, but an amateur Sierra fan, I advance slowly to avoid unpleasant surprises.
First I want finish the scr files.
After, I need you for the 'vocab python script'. I am counting on you for the vocab, Yeah, it creeps me out.

Thanks for your help, ZvikaZ, I feel I have support and assistance... Well, that's good to hear.  :)
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Threepwang on January 07, 2021, 01:46:13 AM
You said yesterday:
"I'm sorry, but I'm not sure that I understood your question,
and I'm not sure what do you mean by saying that I've invalidated many words.
"

Please look this screenshot:
https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2021/01/07/210107075035345104.jpg (https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2021/01/07/210107075035345104.jpg)
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: ZvikaZ on January 07, 2021, 04:22:53 AM
Well, that's a question for SciCompanion authors, not for me...
1. These very menu items look perfect in the Hebrew SQ3. You can open it up in ScummVM, and see the menu (you'd probably want an English SQ3 open as well, to understand what's what...)
2. I'm using Kawa's 3.2.3.0 version, and I just checked, it looks good. So, maybe it has already been fixed, and you're just using an older version...
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Threepwang on January 07, 2021, 05:16:57 AM
OK, I wanted to know if this was your work. I think I have my answer and I don't worry. I lack technical knowledge, so I ask myself a lot of unnecessary questions ;D 'Go back to work' Thank again ZvikaZ !
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Threepwang on January 11, 2021, 04:31:28 AM
@ZvikaZ
Hi,
What is the script 987:
https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2021/01/11/210111110305625543.jpg (https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2021/01/11/210111110305625543.jpg)
I find nothing in the game of this 'scr' justifying it.
What does "Gauge"?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: ZvikaZ on January 11, 2021, 05:13:28 AM
1.
Indeed, I don't find either where is it used.
If I'm not mistaken, it's never used in SQ3.

So, why is it there?

Sierra had a framework of scripts, that each game copied, and started development from there.
Parallel to the game developments, that framework was developed and modified.

This file is part of the framework.
You can see a 'snapshot' of the framework, at some specific time, at https://github.com/OmerMor/SCI16
We see there this very file: https://github.com/OmerMor/SCI16/blob/master/SYSTEM/GAUGE.SC
And inside, there's explanation what's its purpose:
Code: [Select]
;;;;  A class to display a thermometer-like gauge in a Dialog, allowing
;;;;  the user to set a value.


2.
If you want to better understand the scripts, I hope you're using EricOakford's great decompilation:
https://github.com/EricOakford/SCI-Decompilation-Archive
It also has this file, with comments (based on the SCI16 framework...) : https://github.com/EricOakford/SCI-Decompilation-Archive/blob/master/sq3/src/Gauge.sc

This time, these both resources gave you the same answer, but in future questions you'll have, maybe they will have different information, so, it's better to check both. (I usually use EricOakford's decompilation, and check the SCI16 framework only if I feel that 'something is missing')

3.
Anyway, why do you care? :-)
It's quicker to just translate these few lines.
That's we did.
Until now, I haven't even noticed that this script isn't used in the game.
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: OmerMor on January 11, 2021, 05:40:03 AM
You can see a 'snapshot' of the framework, at some specific time, at https://github.com/OmerMor/SCI16
We see there this very file: https://github.com/OmerMor/SCI16/blob/master/SYSTEM/GAUGE.SC

Just wanted to mention that I published more "snapshots":

Specifically, the GAUGE.SC script used by Space Quest 3 is similar to the one from the 1988-11-30 snapshot:
https://github.com/OmerMor/SCI0/blob/bfadf2fa41ab9939b02c64a7e245651570aee13e/GAUGE.SC (https://github.com/OmerMor/SCI0/blob/bfadf2fa41ab9939b02c64a7e245651570aee13e/GAUGE.SC)
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: lskovlun on January 11, 2021, 07:28:09 AM
And this is what the Gauge dialog looks like.
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: ZvikaZ on January 11, 2021, 02:41:37 PM
Just wanted to mention that I published more "snapshots":
  • SCI0 (https://github.com/OmerMor/SCI0) - this repository has 2 snapshots (1988-11-30 ,1989-10-25), available as commits (https://github.com/OmerMor/SCI0/commits/master).
  • SCI16 (https://github.com/OmerMor/SCI16)
  • SCI32 (https://github.com/OmerMor/SCI32) - 2 snapshots (1995-08-31, 1995-10-12), available as commits (https://github.com/OmerMor/SCI32/commits/master).

Wow!
That's news for me...
I wasn't aware of the SCI0 repo, and I haven't ever noticed that there are 2 different commits in SCI32.

BTW, it's a little off-topic for this thread, but any idea why is it called SCI0 (or, why isn't SCI16 called SCI1?)

@Threepwang, thanks for asking this question  :D

Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: ZvikaZ on January 11, 2021, 02:42:33 PM
And this is what the Gauge dialog looks like.

Thanks. I indeed asked myself where is it used...
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: OmerMor on January 11, 2021, 05:47:48 PM
BTW, it's a little off-topic for this thread, but any idea why is it called SCI0 (or, why isn't SCI16 called SCI1?)

SCI versioning is a mess.

I think SCI0 was simply called SCI in-house. However their interpreter versions were 0.000.* so I guess that is why it was named SCI0 by the community. I don't think Sierra ever named it SCI0.

SCI16 was the root folder name used by sierra. Same goes for SCI32.
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Threepwang on January 12, 2021, 08:12:32 AM
Hoooo boy! Thank you for your free flow of answers  :) It's very interesting. For a Sierra game I find QS3 quite clean.
I've seen worse on SCI2 CD versions.
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Kawa on January 12, 2021, 07:14:43 PM
I think SCI0 was simply called SCI in-house. However their interpreter versions were 0.000.* so I guess that is why it was named SCI0 by the community.
Seems likely. Almost all SCI0 games had interpreter versions starting with "0.000.". SCI01 had "S.old.", figure it out lol, SCI1 had "1.000.", SCI11 "1.001." except for LB2, EQ1, and QfG1 being "2.000", QfG3 being "L.rry." (what!?), and localized FPFP "l.cfs.". Then SCI2 was "2.000.", SCI21 was "2.100.", and SCI3 was "3.000.". There are also some games with interpreter version "x.yyy.yyy".

The interpreter source in SCI16.ZIP is versioned "1.001.099", so that puts it between the PQ4 demo (".096" and LSL6 (".113"). No game on the list I've been using (https://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php?title=Sierra_Game_Versions#SCI1.1) for this post has that specific build. But what do I know?

Just because I can, SCI11+ has versions starting with "1.KAWA.". Because screw semantic versioning I guess 8)

Quote
I don't think Sierra ever named it SCI0.
That does seem a little unlikely. One of the manuals does refer to SCI32 though, while the SCI11 source dump is SCI16.ZIP. So basically you have the (possibly fan-created) SCI0-SCI3 naming scheme, and the bit-based scheme Sierra used, being that SCI0 to SCI11 were 16-bit real mode applications and SCI2-3 were 32-bit protected mode, with a DOS4/GW extender and everything, and the only notable thing left 16-bit is the scripting language's variable size and oh god I'm rambling time to stop that and shut down good night everybody!
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: OmerMor on January 13, 2021, 10:08:50 AM
oh god I'm rambling time to stop that and shut down good night everybody!

 ;D

Sounds like a great research topic for your blog, Kawa!
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Kawa on January 13, 2021, 10:30:44 AM
Maybe reformat it a bit...
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: OmerMor on January 14, 2021, 05:41:43 PM
That was quick:
Logo Pending - SCI versions and naming (https://helmet.kafuka.org/logopending/2021/01/13/sci-versions-and-naming/)

I love your posts Kawa!
Title: Re: Space Quest III French translation ?
Post by: Kawa on January 14, 2021, 06:36:43 PM
And I love you, random citizen!