Community

General and Everything Else => The Games and other Sierra Adventure stuff => Topic started by: CTxCB on November 15, 2015, 10:57:19 AM

Title: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 15, 2015, 10:57:19 AM
As some of you might be able to tell... I'm quite new at SCI Programming. Not AGI or SCI as a whole, I've played most of the Self-Published Sierra Lineup (Not including ones made by external developers and published by Sierra). I've played with SCI Studio and SCI Companion before, years ago and I did even have an account on the forum... But I believe I deleted that to avoid embarrassment (All the questions I asked that were meaningless), and for a fresh start in the future (now).

"No-Shirt Developer(s)" (I haven't yet chose whether it'll be Developer, or Developers, thus the bracket there) will be my first game I'll be making with the help of SCI Companion... It's meant to be a homage to the style and feel of a Leisure Suit Larry game whilst being somewhat original as well... Full of jokes and meaningless side adventures that just add to the fun, and lots of ways to die. I'm hoping it'll actually be a finalized game, but yet, I'm only experienced in writing and scripting, so more important things like art or music are going to be difficult for me; Especially since EGA / VGA Art is something that needs to be learned from scratch. "No-Shirt Developer(s)" is also a vague reference to Kawa's "Comfy Shirt Kawa 4".

So... I'd love to have any suggestions for how I'd do art or music in Sierra Style, and more importantly without buying software to help me out. Also, I'd love offers of help, although as a Game Developer, I understand that I'll probably not get that kind of help until I have some kind of thing to show... Like a Game Design Document, or a rough prototype available.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 15, 2015, 11:18:07 AM
You realize that "Comfy Shirt Kawa" is just a stupid little joke reference to what I was actually looking for, right? It's a thread title nothing more ;)

However... <ignoreable rant> there is not, when it comes down to it, a single "Sierra style". Each game (not even each series) does its own thing. For example, I'mma limit myself to character art: back in AGI, most games had the same graphical style simply because there wasn't much room to play with. But even back in early SCI0, you had things like this scene in PQ2 (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/police-quest-2-the-vengeance/screenshots/gameShotId,321423/). All these characters are in the same style... except for Larry. It's actually a pretty good shot, highlighting the differences. And in SCI1, things did not get much better. </ignoreable rant>

Anyway, Paint.NET and Anvil Studio.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 15, 2015, 11:40:00 AM
You realize that "Comfy Shirt Kawa" is just a stupid little joke reference to what I was actually looking for, right? It's a thread title nothing more ;)
Yep, I know that... I basically want this to have as many references to the SCI Programming Community as possible.  :P
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 15, 2015, 11:46:33 AM
<ignoreable rant> there is not, when it comes down to it, a single "Sierra style". Each game (not even each series) does its own thing. For example, I'mma limit myself to character art: back in AGI, most games had the same graphical style simply because there wasn't much room to play with. But even back in early SCI0, you had things like this scene in PQ2 (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/police-quest-2-the-vengeance/screenshots/gameShotId,321423/). All these characters are in the same style... except for Larry. It's actually a pretty good shot, highlighting the differences. And in SCI1, things did not get much better. </ignoreable rant>

Anyway, Paint.NET and Anvil Studio.
I kind of mean more the SCI-Style, in terms how each game as similar to each other in design, although not exact... They all had the same kind of feel, until much later into Late SCI1.1 / SCI2, when the art style began to change drastically from game to game. In Paint.NET, how would I draw with a Color Scheme matching SCI Companion? Also... 320x200 is still the maximum drawable space, yes?
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: troflip on November 15, 2015, 11:59:32 AM
In Paint.NET, how would I draw with a Color Scheme matching SCI Companion? Also... 320x200 is still the maximum drawable space, yes?

What do you mean matching SCI Companion? You can export a palette from SCI Companion if you want to use a specific palette in paint.NET. You would do this for the fixed colors for characters/view, usually. For pic backgrounds, just draw whatever, and SCI Companion will figure out the best palette colors to use for the "flexible" part of the palette range.

320x200 is the maximum for SCI1.1, yes. SCI 2.1 supports 640x480 (And larger, but the screen scrolls). And of course SCI Companion only has limited support for 640x480 and there is no template game.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 15, 2015, 12:06:11 PM
In Paint.NET, how would I draw with a Color Scheme matching SCI Companion? Also... 320x200 is still the maximum drawable space, yes?

What do you mean matching SCI Companion? You can export a palette from SCI Companion if you want to use a specific palette in paint.NET. You would do this for the fixed colors for characters/view, usually. For pic backgrounds, just draw whatever, and SCI Companion will figure out the best palette colors to use for the "flexible" part of the palette range.

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii55/hcnsca/screenshot.png)

I was on the understanding that Sierra Games (Especially SCI0, which I'm trying to emulate), uses EGA, which has a limited range of colors (64, I think), but only 16 can be shown at a time, usually listed as 0 - 15. I'm not sure whether SCI Companion allows different palettes for different rooms or whether it's locked to one across the whole game. But really, I'm trying to emulate the color scheme and feel of a Sierra Game (As in, the image above being a good example of what I mean).
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: troflip on November 15, 2015, 12:14:40 PM
SCI0 uses a fixed 16 color EGA palette with four different "virtual palettes" of 40 dithered colors available per background (in-game, your code can draw the background with any of those 4 palettes). SCI Companion doesn't limit anything, you can do whatever the engine supports. The docs should explain this well; if they don't let me know and I'll make it clearer.

Unless you need a text parse interface, though, I would almost recommend using the SCI1.1 VGA template, and just artificially limit your palette to the 16 EGA colors (or use a fixed 256 color palette that is the combination of all 16x16 dithered colors). This is because SCI0 backgrounds are vector-based, which most people find very challenging to draw (and they have to be drawn in SCI Companion). SCI1+ are bitmapped.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 15, 2015, 12:35:49 PM
SCI0 uses a fixed 16 color EGA palette with four different "virtual palettes" of 40 dithered colors available per background (in-game, your code can draw the background with any of those 4 palettes). SCI Companion doesn't limit anything, you can do whatever the engine supports. The docs should explain this well; if they don't let me know and I'll make it clearer.

Unless you need a text parse interface, though, I would almost recommend using the SCI1.1 VGA template, and just artificially limit your palette to the 16 EGA colors (or use a fixed 256 color palette that is the combination of all 16x16 dithered colors). This is because SCI0 backgrounds are vector-based, which most people find very challenging to draw (and they have to be drawn in SCI Companion). SCI1+ are bitmapped.
So... SCI1.1 doesn't have text parser? It looks like I will have to use SCI0 because of that. Because I feel that a Leisure Suit Larry-Style Game works better with text, and having more ways to do things; It allows for things that couldn't really be done with purely a Point and Click Layout, something like "look under bed" would be very difficult to do with Point and Click, because it'd have to be a "look area" under the bed, which takes away from the fun of working it out yourself.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 15, 2015, 01:04:41 PM
something like "look under bed" would be very difficult to do with Point and Click, because it'd have to be a "look area" under the bed, which takes away from the fun of working it out yourself.
I don't see the problem here.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 15, 2015, 01:12:40 PM
something like "look under bed" would be very difficult to do with Point and Click, because it'd have to be a "look area" under the bed, which takes away from the fun of working it out yourself.
I don't see the problem here.
The fact that they could just use the look button and click under the bed, probably even by accident if they're on the wrong pixel (E.g: If they're trying to look at the bed instead of under it). With a text parser, "look at bed" would just give you a description of the bed, but you would have to TYPE "look under bed" to get the thing that might be under it. I just feel that this type of game would be more challenging (in a good way) like that, than using a Point and Click GUI.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 15, 2015, 01:24:19 PM
I don't think we have quite the same opinions on good puzzle design.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: troflip on November 15, 2015, 02:05:21 PM
I get it... I kind of have a fondness for the parser games too, because of the ability to express yourself with clearer intent.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 15, 2015, 02:10:30 PM
I get it... I kind of have a fondness for the parser games too, because of the ability to express yourself with clearer intent.
Yes! Anyway, could a Text Parser System, and Menu Bar / Menu like SCI0 be made in SCI1.1? Or is it coded too differently to allow it?
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 15, 2015, 02:17:37 PM
The menu bar? Yes. If you use the terp from Larry 6. The parser? No. But you could if you really really wanted to reimplement one... but then it'd not be nearly as functional as the one that SCI0 had built in.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: troflip on November 15, 2015, 02:20:49 PM
If what you're looking for is VGA + text parser, I think there are some Sierra games that have that. Or if not, there are certainly some SCI1 Sierra games whose interpreters still have parser support built in, but it was never actually used in a game. Unfortunately, the interpreter that the SCI1.1 template game is matched with (from LSL6) does not have a built in parser. So I think you'd need to decompile an SCI1 game whose interpreter has parser support, and make a new template game based off that. A lot of work.

Re-creating the text parser in script would be possible, but also a significant amount of work and you wouldn't be able to leverage any of SCI Companion's vocab editing support.

Finally, if all you care about is having the easy of bitmapped graphics (but are ok if they are just EGA) with parser support, then you can just use SCI0 and the  "import bitmap to pic" function of SCI Companion, which converts bitmaps into vector commands to generate a pic. A number of fanmade SCI0 games use this...



Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 15, 2015, 02:23:57 PM
If what you're looking for is VGA + text parser, I think there are some Sierra games that have that. Or if not, there are certainly some SCI1 Sierra games whose interpreters still have parser support built in, but it was never actually used in a game. Unfortunately, the interpreter that the SCI1.1 template game is matched with (from LSL6) does not have a built in parser. So I think you'd need to decompile an SCI1 game whose interpreter has parser support, and make a new template game based off that. A lot of work.

Re-creating the text parser in script would be possible, but also a significant amount of work and you wouldn't be able to leverage any of SCI Companion's vocab editing support.

Finally, if all you care about is having the easy of bitmapped graphics (but are ok if they are just EGA) with parser support, then you can just use SCI0 and the  "import bitmap to pic" function of SCI Companion, which converts bitmaps into vector commands to generate a pic. A number of fanmade SCI0 games use this...
Yeah... For the type of game I'm trying to do, I think I'll stick with SCI0.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: MusicallyInspired on November 15, 2015, 03:23:18 PM
The only post SCI0 game that has a parser of any kind is Larry 7. AGS, on the other hand, can do it.

And no, SCI0 only supports 16 colours, unlike other games like Accolade's adventures (Altered Destiny, Les Manley) that could draw from a 64-colour palette (enhanced EGA).
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 15, 2015, 03:48:12 PM
Wasn't Larry 7's parser mostly an "enter verb" deal? Hardly a "parser", really.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: MusicallyInspired on November 15, 2015, 04:39:32 PM
Don't know. Never played it. I just hear everybody say it has a parser and they loved it. At any rate, I did say a parser "of any kind".
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: OmerMor on November 15, 2015, 04:42:45 PM
There's one Sierra "game" that is both VGA and supports a true parser: the 1990 christmas card VGA demo.
Back in the day, some guys from mega-tokyo managed to enable that parser.
I wrote about it here:
http://sciprogramming.com/community/index.php?topic=27.msg46 (http://sciprogramming.com/community/index.php?topic=27.msg46)

If you want VGA + parser, this is your best bet.

Would be interesting to try editing it with SCI Companion. We had no such tool back then.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 15, 2015, 05:18:46 PM
Don't know. Never played it. I just hear everybody say it has a parser and they loved it. At any rate, I did say a parser "of any kind".
I checked. It was. And then I whipped up a small POC where the template game's Custom verb throws up an EditPrint that it then responds to.

So yeah, not a "parser". Single words, y'all.

There's one Sierra "game" that is both VGA and supports a true parser: the 1990 christmas card VGA demo.
Not only that, it had a functional menu bar, too! User won't decompile but I have the rest right here.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: OmerMor on November 15, 2015, 05:59:11 PM
The demo crashes on decompilation of script 996.
The demo + patches (downloadable from the post I mentioned) is fully decompilable.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 15, 2015, 06:11:59 PM
The demo crashes on decompilation of script 996.
The demo + patches (downloadable from the post I mentioned) is fully decompilable.
I see what you did there.

This is crashy as hell. I never expected to see DOSBox say "reboot requested" in a broken font.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: MusicallyInspired on November 15, 2015, 10:38:00 PM
I forgot all about that!
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 17, 2015, 10:44:34 AM
So... I have an rough idea of what I want my game to be now. So, other than creating something based upon the template... How should I approach making a game in SCI1.1? As somebody who hasn't made a SCI Game before, is there anything I should try and approach first? Also, one thing I'm wondering, and the main reason I'm thinking about switching to a Leisuire Suit Larry Point-&-Click / Parser style is... Can I play video files in SCI? I have kind of a great idea for an opening to the game, and I feel it'd be hard to do such a thing without a video file as an intro. If so, are there limitations to playing video? If I was to make .AVI Video in 320x200 Size, what would be the best frame rate and bitrate for SCI Companion (If I can)?
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 17, 2015, 11:06:06 AM
Unless you limit yourself to playing in ScummVM, you can't use AVI files. At all. If you use the interpreter from King's Quest 6, you can use SEQ files, though.

First thing to approach for the game itself: familiarize yo'self with the scripting language, the engine, and all that stuff. Implement some basic mini puzzles like finding a key and using it on a locked door.

As the video thing demonstrates, ideas are great but oftentimes you'll have to throw one particular thing or another out the window because you or the engine can't handle something that grand.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 17, 2015, 11:14:51 AM
Unless you limit yourself to playing in ScummVM, you can't use AVI files. At all. If you use the interpreter from King's Quest 6, you can use SEQ files, though.

First thing to approach for the game itself: familiarize yo'self with the scripting language, the engine, and all that stuff. Implement some basic mini puzzles like finding a key and using it on a locked door.

As the video thing demonstrates, ideas are great but oftentimes you'll have to throw one particular thing or another out the window because you or the engine can't handle something that grand.
My idea for the opening of my game is CCTV-Style Footage. Nothing advanced, but I feel it adds "realism" to the scenes that follow. You COULD do something like that purely with views or the like, but I feel it'd be a waste of resources to do something as simple as that... But also using so many resources could be intensive on the engine, based on the fact that lots of views which are screen sized are being loaded back to back. How do .SEQ Files work in King's Quest 6?
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 17, 2015, 11:41:19 AM
CCTV footage, hmm? I'm reminded of this introduction scene from LB2. First two screenshots are unaltered, third has a little camera overlay that I whipped up for demonstrative purposes.

KQ6's intro is dynamically picked depending on what the Platform kernel call says it's running on. If it's Windows, it plays the entire introduction cartoon as a single AVI file. If it's DOS, it plays those parts where there's little animation with views on pictures, and the rest as a series of SEQ clips, which are not entirely unlike Autodesk Animator FLIC files. So practically speaking it loads the picture with the decorative letterbox border, draws the "once upon a time" as regular text, all that, and then during the conversation between Alexander and Valanice every time only Alex's mouth moves and/or the lights flicker in the background, it's views. All the sounds and music in the cartoon are regular SCI sounds too. The SEQs on the other hand are for things like Valanice approaching, Alexander shifting, Valanice turning back, dramatic pans around the room, and much of the ship scene.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 17, 2015, 11:50:55 AM
CCTV footage, hmm? I'm reminded of this introduction scene from LB2. First two screenshots are unaltered, third has a little camera overlay that I whipped up for demonstrative purposes.

KQ6's intro is dynamically picked depending on what the Platform kernel call says it's running on. If it's Windows, it plays the entire introduction cartoon as a single AVI file. If it's DOS, it plays those parts where there's little animation with views on pictures, and the rest as a series of SEQ clips, which are not entirely unlike Autodesk Animator FLIC files. So practically speaking it loads the picture with the decorative letterbox border, draws the "once upon a time" as regular text, all that, and then during the conversation between Alexander and Valanice every time only Alex's mouth moves and/or the lights flicker in the background, it's views. All the sounds and music in the cartoon are regular SCI sounds too. The SEQs on the other hand are for things like Valanice approaching, Alexander shifting, Valanice turning back, dramatic pans around the room, and much of the ship scene.
My inspiration is this (http://shortformvideo.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/fake_cctv1.png); Notice: Monochrome Color + Noise, Scanlines, Timecode, Location Identifier, and Date Identifier. It's still going to be Sierra-Styled, but I want to maintain as much as this "realism" as I can. Can .SEQs be overlaid above other .SEQs, or over a background? Because I feel as if the background stuff needs to be one thing, and then the things above another. What is the best way to approach this?
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 17, 2015, 12:36:33 PM
There's not enough resolution for proper noise, and the scanlines would be tricky (for resolution purposes at least) but not necessarily impossible. Other than that, there's nothing stopping you. Again, having great ideas is one thing but sometimes you have to step back.

You can only play one SEQ at a time and I think they might be colorkeyed but I'm not sure.

Practically speaking, the scene could be something like this, where the scanlines, as part of the background picture, have high priority, and the labels are separate views with even higher priority. Any views in the scene proper would be automatically drawn behind the lines, but I'd suggest having them relatively dark so there's lots of highly-compressible areas if they're also relatively large.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: troflip on November 17, 2015, 12:46:21 PM
My inspiration is this (http://shortformvideo.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/fake_cctv1.png); Notice: Monochrome Color + Noise, Scanlines, Timecode, Location Identifier, and Date Identifier. It's still going to be Sierra-Styled, but I want to maintain as much as this "realism" as I can. Can .SEQs be overlaid above other .SEQs, or over a background? Because I feel as if the background stuff needs to be one thing, and then the things above another. What is the best way to approach this?

A modern shader-based graphics system :P

- Draw your scene as usual, with people moving around, etc...
- But switch the palette to a grey scale palette
- Draw a 320x190 view with alternating lines on top of the image
- Draw labels on top of that.

Of course, a 200px high resolution means that your scanlines will be... rough. But if you're going for an old-school feel, then you know...

Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 17, 2015, 01:44:18 PM
That basically boils down to what I said, but with a view for the scanlines.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 17, 2015, 01:59:35 PM
I'll see what I can do with that.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: troflip on November 17, 2015, 02:22:41 PM
You could also emulate noise. If you use, say, 16 grey-scale colors for the picture, and you have 192 palette indices, then each pixel of a particular color could be one of 12 different palette indices (chosen randomly).

Then in script you could modify the intensity of each palette color randomly in each game cycle. An area of one solid color would have 12 different pertubations possible per pixel, so it would probably look like random noise.

The hard part is generating the palette indices in the first place. You'd need to be able to produce 12 variations (in your image editor), where a random 1/12 of the pixels are on and the rest are transparent. Then import them one by one into a pic in SCI Companion, into different palette ranges. It would be trivial to write code in SCI Companion that assigns a color to a random palette index, but it seems like functionality very specific to this scenario... would it have other uses? hmm...

Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: MusicallyInspired on November 17, 2015, 07:06:49 PM
Can you not overlay one pic on top of another in SCI1.1? Wouldn't that be easier on heap/performance than a screen-sized view? I tried making a screen-sized view in SCI0 once. It doesn't like that very much lol.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: troflip on November 17, 2015, 07:13:27 PM
Can you not overlay one pic on top of another in SCI1.1? Wouldn't that be easier on heap/performance than a screen-sized view? I tried making a screen-sized view in SCI0 once. It doesn't like that very much lol.

I don't think that's really an option if you want to actually have actors moving "underneath" the grid lines.

Yeah, in SCI0 screen-sized views are definitely a problem. In SCI1.1, I don't think it's as big a deal. I had to remove code that detected views as corrupt because they were too large... because some of the games did have ones that large.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 17, 2015, 07:16:17 PM
Black scanlines in the visual screen, white scanlines in the priority screen y'all.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: troflip on November 17, 2015, 07:24:51 PM
Black scanlines in the visual screen, white scanlines in the priority screen y'all.

lol, you're right. That would do it. And then MI's overlay makes total sense.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 17, 2015, 07:27:33 PM
Unless you want to CCTV arbitrary screens, why bother with overlays?
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 18, 2015, 02:39:51 AM
Looking at the opening to King's Quest VI (https://youtu.be/MNxKO1EW3yE?t=160) (I've never actually watched the Introduction to that game), I see that the .SEQ files have voice acting? Can .SEQ Files hold audio files or timing for when an audio file should be played? Or is it just some elaborate code that knows when these events should happen in the .SEQ File and plays them to match? I'd love to know!
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 18, 2015, 03:05:57 AM
Also, I've installed Paint.NET to do images for my SCI1.1 Game. How do I limit the game to a VGA Palette? My idea is to take a real image (creative commons) and then try to convert it to VGA, and see what that's like, then work on drawing something from that, or if it's good enough then I might use it instead.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: troflip on November 18, 2015, 03:12:24 AM
Looking at the opening to King's Quest VI (https://youtu.be/MNxKO1EW3yE?t=160) (I've never actually watched the Introduction to that game), I see that the .SEQ files have voice acting? Can .SEQ Files hold audio files or timing for when an audio file should be played? Or is it just some elaborate code that knows when these events should happen in the .SEQ File and plays them to match? I'd love to know!

kawa made a utility that generates seq files, and one that plays them back:
http://sciprogramming.com/community/index.php?topic=1487.15

I don't think audio was involved though... but maybe he knows more...
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: troflip on November 18, 2015, 03:14:11 AM
How do I limit the game to a VGA Palette?

Not sure I understand that sentence. The game is VGA. It can use any palette.

My idea is to take a real image (creative commons) and then try to convert it to VGA, and see what that's like, then work on drawing something from that, or if it's good enough then I might use it instead.

http://scicompanion.com/Documentation/pics.html#importing-a-vga-pic-background-sci1
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 18, 2015, 03:33:34 AM
How do I limit the game to a VGA Palette?

Not sure I understand that sentence. The game is VGA. It can use any palette.

My idea is to take a real image (creative commons) and then try to convert it to VGA, and see what that's like, then work on drawing something from that, or if it's good enough then I might use it instead.

http://scicompanion.com/Documentation/pics.html#importing-a-vga-pic-background-sci1
What I meant to say is that I want to limit Paint.NET to a VGA Palette. How do I do that? The same one that SCI1.1 Games use.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: troflip on November 18, 2015, 03:41:19 AM
What I meant to say is that I want to limit Paint.NET to a VGA Palette. How do I do that? The same one that SCI1.1 Games use.

http://scicompanion.com/Documentation/palettes.html#import-export-import-at-export-range

Export a palette as a .pal file, presumably paint.NET can read that.

But... you generally wouldn't want to do this for backgrounds. Each background generally uses different colors for palette entries 96-254. There's no "single palette".

For drawing views, then yes, you'd want do that. Export palette 999, load that into paint.NET and use the first 64 colors.

Or, again, you can just use SCI Companion to automatically map the colors...
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 18, 2015, 04:19:05 AM
Looking at the opening to King's Quest VI (https://youtu.be/MNxKO1EW3yE?t=160) (I've never actually watched the Introduction to that game), I see that the .SEQ files have voice acting? Can .SEQ Files hold audio files or timing for when an audio file should be played? Or is it just some elaborate code that knows when these events should happen in the .SEQ File and plays them to match? I'd love to know!
Didn't I already say that all the audio for the DOS intro is done with regular SCI sound methods?
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 18, 2015, 04:47:55 AM
Looking at the opening to King's Quest VI (https://youtu.be/MNxKO1EW3yE?t=160) (I've never actually watched the Introduction to that game), I see that the .SEQ files have voice acting? Can .SEQ Files hold audio files or timing for when an audio file should be played? Or is it just some elaborate code that knows when these events should happen in the .SEQ File and plays them to match? I'd love to know!
Didn't I already say that all the audio for the DOS intro is done with regular SCI sound methods?
Can't remember. But I'm wondering how timing would be done on a .SEQ File with with regular SCI sound methods.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 18, 2015, 05:03:28 AM
Can't remember. But I'm wondering how timing would be done on a .SEQ File with with regular SCI sound methods.
You don't time it at all.

Like I said, the actual conversation in KQ6's intro, between Valanice and Alexander, is done mostly with regular views and pictures, and the SEQ files for that shot only serve to do the larger animations like Valanice entering and leaving. The other use is for large dramatic moving-camera shots, and the only sound then is background music.

Also, my SEQ file creation tool doesn't work quite right and is very cheap about compressing the frame data.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 18, 2015, 05:05:31 AM
Can't remember. But I'm wondering how timing would be done on a .SEQ File with with regular SCI sound methods.
You don't time it at all.

Like I said, the actual conversation in KQ6's intro, between Valanice and Alexander, is done mostly with regular views and pictures, and the SEQ files for that shot only serve to do the larger animations like Valanice entering and leaving. The other use is for large dramatic moving-camera shots, and the only sound then is background music.

Also, my SEQ file creation tool doesn't work quite right and is very cheap about compressing the frame data.
Well, it seems as though I'll need to do a whole scene as a .SEQ to implement some of the effects I'll need, as they're constant, that or randomly switch between .SEQ(s). It does involve large chunks of animation.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 18, 2015, 05:39:04 AM
Or you could sit back and rethink your plans.

I know I have. Heck, I know Al Lowe and Roberta Williams have.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 18, 2015, 06:03:35 AM
Or you could sit back and rethink your plans.

I know I have. Heck, I know Al Lowe and Roberta Williams have.
I'm willing to regarding other areas of the game, but this Intro scene... I'm not sure how I'd rethink it. It fits in with the plot of the game too well to let it go.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 18, 2015, 07:13:46 AM
You don't have to rethink it. Phil and I already did that for you. You can do your CCTV thing and have it recognizable as a CCTV thing, even without noise effects. What makes video footage CCTV footage? The grayscales? The particular overlay things like "CAM1 (KITCHEN)"? Just because it has little to no scanlines and no noise at all doesn't mean it can't be instantly recognized as anything but CCTV footage if you have the grayscales and labels.

Practical example: Duke Nukem 3D has security cameras and monitors. If you activate a monitor, you're shown the scene as seen from the cameras linked to that monitor. There's no special effects involved -- no scanlines, no grain, not even a grayscale filter -- but the very fact that there are white corner brackets and a blinking ●REC makes it scream "these are CCTV images". The only real special effect here is that if you step back again, the monitor texture still shows the camera footage.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: CTxCB on November 18, 2015, 07:27:00 AM
You don't have to rethink it. Phil and I already did that for you. You can do your CCTV thing and have it recognizable as a CCTV thing, even without noise effects. What makes video footage CCTV footage? The grayscales? The particular overlay things like "CAM1 (KITCHEN)"? Just because it has little to no scanlines and no noise at all doesn't mean it can't be instantly recognized as anything but CCTV footage if you have the grayscales and labels.

Practical example: Duke Nukem 3D has security cameras and monitors. If you activate a monitor, you're shown the scene as seen from the cameras linked to that monitor. There's no special effects involved -- no scanlines, no grain, not even a grayscale filter -- but the very fact that there are white corner brackets and a blinking ●REC makes it scream "these are CCTV images". The only real special effect here is that if you step back again, the monitor texture still shows the camera footage.
I'm thinking that I'm going to do it the view way, as in have a 2 to 8-Cel Loop (haven't decided on length) that has noise and static, scanlines, Video Tearing, etc., and then overlay the information, like time, location and such as their own Loop, to allow for little bits of animation on that too. Since there's going to be thunder / lightning, I might alternate between two sets of 2 to 8-Cel Loops, one with additional lighting and the other without. Credits will then be their own Loop in the same view (Credits similar to Laura Bow II: The Dagger of Amon Ra). And hopefully, I'll have one view for the intro scene... Instead of having lots of views, I'm trying to consolidate it into as little as possible.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: Kawa on November 18, 2015, 07:31:06 AM
... I give up.
Title: Re: No-Shirt Developer(s)
Post by: MusicallyInspired on November 18, 2015, 11:46:12 AM
If you're just wanting to accomplish so much just for the challenge, that's fine. I attempt this on occasion. But you do have to work within the limitations of the engine. There's nothing you can do about that. Be prepared to be frustrated and slam your head against your desk multiple times.

There is a reason KQ6's intro is completely different and more elaborate in Windows compared to DOS. There are things that you just cannot do with the tools you're limited to. If you can figure out a way to do it, all power to you, if not just use AGS. It will do all of this and much more with the greatest of ease.