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AGI Programming => AGI Development Tools => Topic started by: morpa on April 17, 2016, 03:42:06 PM

Title: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: morpa on April 17, 2016, 03:42:06 PM
I do translations for a lot of open source stuff, but as I'm also a big Sierra fan, I thought it would be fun to translate one of the older AGI-games. Last night I started researing tools, and the format, and with Kings Quest I AGI I used WinAGI (as QT AGI studio has errors with logic view for me in Linux) to view the Logic files. Now, one thing puzzling me is that I can't find the menus in the Amiga-version. In the IBM-version they are clearly in Logic.0, in the last part of the global messages at the bottom. In the Amiga-version the last menumessages is missing and there is also one difference in the script code.

Amiga:

if (isset(game_restarted)) {
    new.room(1);
  }
  else {
    new.room(83);
  }

Ibm:

if (isset(game_restarted)) {
    new.room(1);
  }
  else {
    set.menu("Info");
    set.menu.item("About KQ", c19);
    set.menu.item("Help    ", c18);
    set.menu("File");
    set.menu.item("Save Game      <F5>", c1);


Ok, so they differ - I tried searching for the menu strings in all other Amiga-Logic files but none were found. I then looked with an hex-editor at the Sierra.exe (the specific Amiga-version of the interpreter) and found some other strings, but not the menu ones. Could it be the they assemblycoded the menus in the Amiga-versions for some reason - then again, I should have been able to find the strings. So, some related questions:

1) I thought that the AGI-scripts were supposed to stay the same, and that only the interpreter would differ between platforms... ok, so seems not?
2) Does anyone have a clue were the menus can be found in the Amiga-version? No fun translating without them.
3) Are there any good tools for translating AGI like there is for SCI (the TraduSCI-engine)
4) QT AGI studio seems really buggy on linux, can anyone verify they can look at the logic for KQ1 with that without getting error messages.




Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: Collector on April 17, 2016, 06:13:51 PM
Most of the AGI tools are old enough that they have issues on modern OSs. I was working on completing Visual AGI for a more modern IDE for AGI, but the logic backend is missing. As to Amiga versions I cannot say as that is a hole in my collection. Does the Amiga version have the AGI file? Look in that.
Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: Kawa on April 17, 2016, 06:15:41 PM
I just got a copy of KQ1 for Amiga to confirm what I think you're saying here and yes, according to SV (which is not just for SCI) there is indeed no menu setup in logic 0:
PCAmiga
if (f6)
{
  new.room(1);
}
else
{
  set.menu("Info");
  set.menu.item("About KQ", c19);
...
  submit.menu();
  new.room(83);
}		if (f6)
{
  new.room(1);
}
else
{
  new.room(83);
}

In fact, running KQ1AMI in ScummVM reveals that there is no menu in this version, hardcoded or otherwise!

(Also, it's not "sierra.exe" on Amiga, it's just "Sierra".)
Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: Collector on April 17, 2016, 06:20:22 PM
What is the interpreter version?
Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: Kawa on April 17, 2016, 06:21:32 PM
Looking in the Sierra file for "version", I find "Version 2.082".

Changing KQ1Ami's platform setting in ScummVM to DOS changes nothing about the menu, only the way it asks for confirmation and such. Doing the reverse with KQ3 gives me Amiga colors and UI styling -and- a menu.

Why not just translate the PC version though?
Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: Collector on April 17, 2016, 09:13:58 PM
We are talking about the first AGI game. I think that the very first versions simply lacked a menu. That is why I was asking about the version. Not sure how the Amiga interpreter, but few games had version 1 interpreter. The first three or so versions of KQ1, BC and DDPG. Checking my KQ2 booter I see it has no menu, too. KQ2 v1.1H (booter) does not, but v2.1 int 2.411 does. SQ1.0X with int 2.089 does not, but v2.2 with int 2.426 does.

So it looks like the menu was added sometime in the middle of int 2.
Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: morpa on April 18, 2016, 01:54:08 AM
Quote from: Kawa on April 17, 2016, 06:15:41 PM
I just got a copy of KQ1 for Amiga to confirm what I think you're saying here and yes, according to SV (which is not just for SCI) there is indeed no menu setup in logic 0:
PCAmiga
if (f6)
{
  new.room(1);
}
else
{
  set.menu("Info");
  set.menu.item("About KQ", c19);
...
  submit.menu();
  new.room(83);
}		if (f6)
{
  new.room(1);
}
else
{
  new.room(83);
}

In fact, running KQ1AMI in ScummVM reveals that there is no menu in this version, hardcoded or otherwise!

(Also, it's not "sierra.exe" on Amiga, it's just "Sierra".)


Actually, running the game on an amiga or an emulator like FS-UAE shows that there IS a menu, with all the regular stuff - About, Restore, Save and so on. So I guess it's in the Sierra executable then for Amiga-version. (That explains if you don't get a menu if youre running through ScummVM, as the menus clearly isn't done in the scripting). Will disassemble the Sierra-executable some more and see if I can find them.


Why not just translate the PC version though?

Why? Seems to easy now doesn't it.;) Well, I just became curious now I Guess. Besides, I got a soft spot specifically for the Amiga-versions and would be happy run that version on my old machines.
Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: morpa on April 18, 2016, 01:55:52 AM
Quote from: Collector on April 17, 2016, 06:13:51 PM
Most of the AGI tools are old enough that they have issues on modern OSs. I was working on completing Visual AGI for a more modern IDE for AGI, but the logic backend is missing. As to Amiga versions I cannot say as that is a hole in my collection. Does the Amiga version have the AGI file? Look in that.

It would be wonderful with a working, modern AGI-ide. All the ones I tried have some issues, and doesn't seem to be in development for a long time.
Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: Kawa on April 18, 2016, 05:03:42 AM
Yeah, I realized my mistake about the hardcoded menu after, but I was already in bed by then and not exactly planning to boot up the laptop again to look closer.
Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: OmerMor on April 18, 2016, 08:24:40 AM
What do you use to disassembly Amiga binaries?
Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: Kawa on April 18, 2016, 12:24:43 PM
If you were replying to me, the answer is nothing. I'm just looking through the raw mess for readable bits.
Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: Collector on April 18, 2016, 01:57:11 PM
I think he was addressing that to morpa.
Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: OmerMor on April 18, 2016, 02:15:29 PM
Yeah, I was referring to this:
Quote from: morpa on April 18, 2016, 01:54:08 AM
Will disassemble the Sierra-executable some more and see if I can find them.
Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: Kawa on April 18, 2016, 03:31:38 PM
Carry on then. *scurries back to the SCI subfora*
Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: NewRisingSun on October 20, 2016, 01:52:37 PM
The Amiga version of KQ1 is based on the 256K version 1.0U for the PC. Version 1.0U had no menus on the PC either, just as KQ3 version 1.01 did not, and just as SQ1 versions 1.0X and 1.1A did not. Menus were only added in early 1987 with interpreter version 2.4xx, when Sierra released most of their previous games with menus, which in the case of 256K KQ1 was version 2.0F. (The original self-booting KQ1 is the "128K version").
Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: OmerMor on October 20, 2016, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: NewRisingSun on October 20, 2016, 01:52:37 PM
The Amiga version of KQ1 is based on the 256K version 1.0U for the PC. Version 1.0U had no menus on the PC either, just as KQ3 version 1.01 did not, and just as SQ1 versions 1.0X and 1.1A did not. Menus were only added in early 1987 with interpreter version 2.4xx, when Sierra released most of their previous games with menus, which in the case of 256K KQ1 was version 2.0F. (The original self-booting KQ1 is the "128K version").

But morpa clearly states that he's getting menus when running on an Amiga (emulator):
Quote from: morpa on April 18, 2016, 01:54:08 AM
Actually, running the game on an amiga or an emulator like FS-UAE shows that there IS a menu, with all the regular stuff - About, Restore, Save and so on.
Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: NewRisingSun on October 20, 2016, 04:24:18 PM
I was replying to the claim that the Amiga version's script code was supposed to be identical to the PC version's. The fact that the Amiga version has no menus in its scripts does not contradict that, as the PC version 1.0U will not have menus in its scripts either.

Having managed to open the Amiga version's logic files by replacing the OBJECT file from a later PC version, I find the menus in logic 83. The PC version 1.0U has no menus in logic 83. The Amiga version therefore must have been based on PC version 1.0U (and even says that in the debugger), and yet menus were added to it without increasing the version number. The time stamps on the Amiga version are December 17 1986, while PC version 1.0U is dated November 13 1986.
Title: Re: Menus gone - difference in AGI logic scripting between IBM and Amiga - KQ 1
Post by: OmerMor on October 20, 2016, 05:02:50 PM
Quote from: NewRisingSun on October 20, 2016, 04:24:18 PM
I was replying to the claim that the Amiga version's script code was supposed to be identical to the PC version's. The fact that the Amiga version has no menus in its scripts does not contradict that, as the PC version 1.0U will not have menus in its scripts either.

Having managed to open the Amiga version's logic files by replacing the OBJECT file from a later PC version, I find the menus in logic 83. The PC version 1.0U has no menus in logic 83. The Amiga version therefore must have been based on PC version 1.0U (and even says that in the debugger), and yet menus were added to it without increasing the version number. The time stamps on the Amiga version are December 17 1986, while PC version 1.0U is dated November 13 1986.

Sorry - I misunderstood you.

However, you're now providing an answer to the original post:

Quote from: morpa on April 17, 2016, 03:42:06 PM
2) Does anyone have a clue were the menus can be found in the Amiga-version? No fun translating without them.

And the answer is LOGIC.83.