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General and Everything Else => The Games and other Sierra Adventure stuff => Topic started by: OmerMor on December 20, 2006, 03:07:36 PM

Title: Rare SCI Games
Post by: OmerMor on December 20, 2006, 03:07:36 PM
Copied from the old MT forums:

I thought I'd make a small list of of rare SCI games that I can't seem to find or I had a hard time finding (bold games are the ones I already have):

Rare SCI Games
EGA Versions:
This section covers all the little known EGA versions of well known SCI1 games, like King's Quest 5. When Sierra first moved to 256-color VGA games, they probably feared that people with inferior video cards, or not enough memory, wouldn't be able to run those games. So they made an alternative version with the same point-and-click interface, only with 16-color EGA graphics. When they moved to their newer interpreter, SCI1.1, they stopped making a seperate EGA version, and instead shipped the games (or at least some of them) with an EGA high-resolution driver, (called EGA640.DRV) that could dither the 320x240 VGA graphics in 640x480 EGA.
CD Versions:
This section covers all the less known CD versions of Sierra games.
Other:
This section covers all the rest.
International Versions:
This section covers all the (official) translations.

Screenshots: http://russo.ag.ru/official/125/ (http://russo.ag.ru/official/125/)

Screenshots: http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~nuts/game/game09.html (http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~nuts/game/game09.html),
http://www.02.246.ne.jp/~kaw/t-o-m-d/review/qfglory/index.html (http://www.02.246.ne.jp/~kaw/t-o-m-d/review/qfglory/index.html)
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Threepwang on October 04, 2020, 11:12:42 AM
Hi OmerMor,

I don't know how what I think... look this :
https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/10/04/201004051350178456.jpg (https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/10/04/201004051350178456.jpg)
It says that Quest for Glory 4 and Police Quest 4 were translated into French.
But but they are apparently nowhere to be found.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: hrvg on October 04, 2020, 02:40:23 PM
@ Threepwang,
Police quest 4 was released in French. Quest for Glory 4 was not released in French. Only Quest for Glory 3 and the translation is bad.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: OmerMor on October 04, 2020, 04:25:34 PM
I have French Police Quest 4. Let me know if you want a copy.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: OmerMor on October 04, 2020, 04:30:41 PM
BTW,
a much more up-to-date and complete list of SCI games can be found in the detection tables of scummvm:
https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/blob/master/engines/sci/detection_tables.h (https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/blob/master/engines/sci/detection_tables.h)
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: EricOakford on October 04, 2020, 05:00:56 PM
Quote from: hrvg on October 04, 2020, 02:40:23 PM
@ Threepwang,
Police quest 4 was released in French. Quest for Glory 4 was not released in French. Only Quest for Glory 3 and the translation is bad.

QFG4's documentation was translated to French, but the game itself wasn't. This was even mentioned in the QFG Anthology's readme:
Quote
Question: There is French documentation for QG4 in the \DOCO
directory on the QG Collection CD, but there is no QG4 French game
on the CD.  Why?
Answer: The documentation was printed in French, but we never released
a French version of QG4.  We included the French documentation on the
CD in case someone wanted to take a look at it.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Threepwang on October 04, 2020, 08:32:44 PM
@OmerMor
Sorry I was wrong for Police Quest IV 'I was thinking more at Quest for Glory IV'.
If you are interested, I have some games from the list 'Space Quest 4 beta and Space Quest 5 v0.028'.
Thank you for the link  :)

@Hrvg
Have you ever randomly bumped someplace, no?  ;)

@EricOakford
Thank you for the info ! In fact, To that end, I have already been discussing of Quest for Glory IV with Corey Cole in person and he said me 'to his knowledge, there is no French version'. But, I wanted to be sure. Because with Sierra, it's sometimes the chaos  ;D
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: OmerMor on October 05, 2020, 11:21:40 AM
Quote from: Threepwang on October 04, 2020, 08:32:44 PM
@OmerMor
If you are interested, I have some games from the list 'Space Quest 4 beta and Space Quest 5 v0.028'.

Thanks :-)
In the 14 years that passed since I made this list I managed to find these beta versions...  8)
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Threepwang on May 08, 2022, 11:26:53 AM
I discovered that in the game Quest for Glory 3, the view.884 is the French translation of the title of Quest for Glory IV: shadow of darkness / Les Ombres des Tenebres.
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/16520232401861764759.png (http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/16520232401861764759.png)
So the Sierra guys had planned or thought about a French version of episode 4, but it never came out.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Kawa on May 08, 2022, 12:12:49 PM
The German version also has a translated QfG4 logo, Schatten des Bösen. The Italian and Spanish versions don't seem to have one.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Charles on May 08, 2022, 10:40:29 PM
On the original QFG Anthology CD release in 1996 includes the french documentation for QFG4, stating in the readme file:
Quote
Question: There is French documentation for QG4 in the \DOCO
directory on the QG Anthology CD, but there is no QG4 French game
on the CD.  Why?
Answer: The documentation was printed in French, but we never released
a French versionof QG4.  We included the French documentation on the
CD in case someone needed it.

The later 1997 QFG Collection re-release also includes the french QFG4 documentation, with a slightly rewritten FAQ answer:
Quote
Question: There is French documentation for QG4 in the \DOCO
directory on the QG Collection CD, but there is no QG4 French game
on the CD.  Why?
Answer: The documentation was printed in French, but we never released
a French version of QG4.  We included the French documentation on the
CD in case someone wanted to take a look at it.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Threepwang on February 09, 2023, 12:33:59 PM
Hi everyone!

I am looking for a rare version of Hero's Quest: So You Want to Be a Hero :
Game version 1.102 -  Interpreter version 0.000.629. Impossible to get hold of it.

I found the interpreter version 0.000.566, but Sierra version Tool does not indicate whether it is version 1.000 or 1.001: http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/16759635301495889515.jpg

Sciwiki: http://sciwiki.sierrahelp.com//index.php?title=Hero%27s_Quest:_So_You_Want_to_Be_a_Hero

Also I don't understand what it means: "* First interpreter version that supported kGetTime(2 and 3)"

Thank you for your help PLEASE.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Kawa on February 09, 2023, 12:52:48 PM
Quote from: Threepwang on February 09, 2023, 12:33:59 PM
Also I don't understand what it means: "* First interpreter version that supported kGetTime(2 and 3)"

The GetTime kernel call supports different formats of return value. (GetTime 1) returns the time of day on a one second resolution with up to twelve hours, 2 returns the time in two second resolution with 24 hours, and 3 returns the date since 1980.

According to the original changelog, these options were added December 12, 1989. They were quite proud of the backward compatibility.

According to MobyGames, Leisure Suit Larry 3 was released in November 1989, which nicely matches how its KERNEL.SH has no mention of any parameters for GetTime, as does LSL2's. Larry 5, from 1991, does have parameters defined for GetTime. So that all matches up.

And that's what "first interpreter version that supported kGetTime(2 and 3)" mean.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on February 09, 2023, 10:16:37 PM
The version information on the Wiki largely comes from HWM's version list.

http://web.archive.org/web/20071130073710/sierra.8bit.co.uk/SVLIST091.TXT

The version information from the version tool comes from the ScummVM hash tables, supplemented copies of my own games that were absent in the SVM tables. It does not include anything from HWM's list as that has no hash info. The kGetTime reference comes from the FreeSCI SCI docs.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on February 09, 2023, 10:25:51 PM
Also, the info from the version tool is missing the game version in its table. The tool does look for files that might contain the version, but did not find it. If you can find it I can add it to the tool. The Half-dome logo at the left of the menubar should provide the game version.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Daventry on February 10, 2023, 05:02:53 AM
Hi Threepwang
Check your personal email. There is a link to the version you need.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Threepwang on February 11, 2023, 08:21:15 AM
@Kawa
Thank you for this explanation. Only here I can get an answer to this kind of question! KGetTime is an amazing feature that I didn't know about. I wonder why this function is only in the first interpreter...

@Collector
I understand now, it makes sense. I have two 0.000.566 sets, but one is dated by your tool from 94 and the other from 96. So I deduce that the one from 94 is version 1.000, while the one from 96 is version 1.001. I use your tool regularly, it is very rich in information on each edition  :)

*Thanks to @Daventry I have obtained version 1.102. I'm really happy!!

Thanks to all three of you!  ;D
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Kawa on February 11, 2023, 08:43:07 AM
Quote from: Threepwang on February 11, 2023, 08:21:15 AM
I wonder why this function is only in the first interpreter...
It's literally not. The specific version of GetTime that only returns one second resolution times with only twelve hours is in SCI0. The version that can also return two seconds twenty-four hour times and dates is in all other later versions, including the later 32-bit high-resolution ones.

Just because it may come up some time:

To quote the official changelog anno December 9 1989:
Code: [Select]
; print current 12 hour time as in 01:30:22 (assume PM)
 (= tm (GetTime SYSTIME1))
(Printf "%02d:%02d:%02d"
(>> tm 12)
(& (>> tm 6) 63)
(& tm 63)
)

; print current 24 hour time as in 13:30:22
(= tm (GetTime SYSTIME2))
 (Printf "%02d:%02d:%02d"
(>> tm 11)
(& (>> tm 5) 63)
(* (& tm 63) 2)
)

; print current DATE as in 12/09/1989 (only good through 1999)
; years value is number of years since 1980
 (= tm (GetTime SYSDATE))
(Printf "%02d/%02d/19%02d"
(& (>> tm 5) 15)
(& tm 31)
(+ 80 (>> tm 9)) ; you must add 80 to return value
)

Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on February 11, 2023, 09:39:12 AM
Quote from: Threepwang on February 11, 2023, 08:21:15 AM
@Collector
I understand now, it makes sense. I have two 0.000.566 sets, but one is dated by your tool from 94 and the other from 96. So I deduce that the one from 94 is version 1.000, while the one from 96 is version 1.001. I use your tool regularly, it is very rich in information on each edition  :)

Note that the date is first derived from its database of known games and if not found then it gets the GetLastWriteTime of the MAP/DIR file based on the idea that the last compile time is probably close to the release date of that version. The tool will indicate if the date was estimated this way.

If I can get back to updating the tool I have it in mind to look for the date in the VERSION, QA, README, etc. files first, then the known game list, then MAP/DIR file date.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on February 11, 2023, 09:52:22 AM
Quote from: Threepwang on February 11, 2023, 08:21:15 AM
I deduce that the one from 94 is version 1.000, while the one from 96 is version 1.001.

No need to guess the version. As I said before you can check it in game.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Threepwang on February 13, 2023, 09:02:14 AM
@Collector
Indeed, it's easier ;)

I would like to take this opportunity to ask another question. I would like to know if EcoQuest 1, Game version 1.10, Interpreter version 2.000.286, is a CD version? Does this edition exist or is it a lost version?

SCIWiki: http://sciwiki.sierrahelp.com//index.php?title=EcoQuest:_The_Search_for_Cetus

I have fully translated the CD version 1.1, interpreter version 1.001.064, but I am currently updating, it as there are still bugs inherent to the game, some of which may be difficult to fix. That's why I'm wondering about version 1.10 which is more recent. Thank you for your insight.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on February 13, 2023, 11:28:12 AM
I am not sure about that one. That entry comes from HWM's list. He has it listed as a SCI1.1 game, but the interpreter version is SCI2. I'd be very interested in seeing this one to see what is going on with it. The interpreter version would suggest that it is likely MPC, but not absolutely. If you track it down, let me know.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Kawa on February 13, 2023, 11:38:54 AM
Huh. An SCI 1.1 game with a 2.0 version number.

Ain't that somethin'.

But then again, the SCI 1.0 releases all had extra funky versions so I don't know what I expected.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on February 13, 2023, 05:30:47 PM
It has been a while since HWM has been around. Wish we could ask him what is up with it.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: OmerMor on February 13, 2023, 05:54:33 PM
According to ScummVm's detection tables, this is a floppy version and it's real:
https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/blob/ab666139e2904a57c1db30d8f020137acbd1a5a7/engines/sci/detection_tables.h#L618-L624

Code: [Select]
// Eco Quest - English DOS Floppy (reported by misterhands in bug #6599)
// Game v1.10, interpreter 2.000.286, INT #6.12.92
{"ecoquest", "Floppy", {
{"resource.map", 0, "acb10c12bf15ffa7d0fac36124b20c8e", 4890},
{"resource.000", 0, "89cf7c8eed99afd0a9f4188170b81ebe", 3428654},
AD_LISTEND},
Common::EN_ANY, Common::kPlatformDOS, 0, GUIO_STD16 },
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on February 14, 2023, 12:26:10 AM
But, shouldn't this be referred to as SCI2, or am I missing something?
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Kawa on February 14, 2023, 05:53:20 AM
If SCI0 is every terp with version 0.000.blank, SCI10 is versions 1.000.blank, SCI11 is 1.100.blank, SCI2 is 2.000.blank, SCI21 is 2.100.blank, and SCI3 is 3.000.blank, it'd be easy to say this should be referred to as SCI2.

But it's not that easy, I think, and it may confuse one to believe EcoQuest 1 had a 32-bit release, since SCI 2.000 and later refers to a 32-bit interpreter in all but this one case and I can't see how or why this would be an SCI32 game.

And of course it's not as straightforward as I implied at the start of this post (https://helmet.kafuka.org/logopending/2021/01/13/sci-versions-and-naming/). I left out SCI01 because that's version S.OLD.blank. And EcoQuest specifically has 1.ECO.blank, as seen on that wiki page. We don't call those versions "SCIE" any more than we call QFG3's "SCIL" or SQ4's "SCIS" -- we call them SCI10 and SCI11, right?

So I say this one SCI 2.000.286 is probably an outlier that should still be counted as SCI11 until someone actually finds a copy and confirms otherwise by

(Feel free to read all mentions of SCIxy above as SCI x.y, as you prefer.)
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on February 14, 2023, 10:37:40 PM
Except there are SCI2+ games that only included a 16-bit executable, i.e. KQ7 or Shivers, both with the 2.100.002 interpreter. Isn't the 32-bit more of a matter of how it accesses the game's data rather than the bit depth of the EXE itself? Remember that many customers back then still commonly had Win3x machines. Then again, I guess they could have used the Win32s runtime.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Kawa on February 15, 2023, 05:15:26 AM
Yeah, somehow during the writing of that post I forgot the last bit: "and confirms otherwise by looking at the actual game data, which may or may not actually be entirely SCI11", which I think would be a bigger indicator than the executable's bittage.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on February 15, 2023, 09:51:03 AM
Perhaps I should ask on some of the Facebook Sierra groups if anyone has this version.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Threepwang on February 15, 2023, 10:02:59 AM
I really searched everywhere and found nothing. I even looked at the floppy screenshots on Ebay. If you have a Facebook account, it's a great idea, this version is rare, but it exists.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on February 15, 2023, 08:40:10 PM
I may have located it. I am trying to get images of the disks. It does have the right date, but the disk labels say game version 1.1, not 1.10. Looks like it is the Sierra Discovery Series release of the game.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on February 16, 2023, 09:45:03 PM
The version in question is the Sierra Discovery Series release. I got two copies from different sources. Attached is from disk images that I concatenated the resource file from across all four of the diskettes. I normally would not post an official game here, but someone may be able to see if the game should be classified as an SCI2 game or an SCI1.1 in spite of the interpreter reporting an SCI2 version number.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Threepwang on February 17, 2023, 01:11:08 AM
What I can say is that the color palette is finer in the floppy version than in the CD version. Also the PIC files are quite different, especially the 120.pic.

I wonder why the CD version has a smaller palette? It should be the opposite ???
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/16766144641519056616.jpg

*While I'm on the subject of color palettes, does the EGA version of EcoQuest really exist?
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Kawa on February 17, 2023, 04:45:52 AM
Quote from: Collector on February 16, 2023, 09:45:03 PM
but someone may be able to see if the game should be classified as an SCI2 game or an SCI1.1 in spite of the interpreter reporting an SCI2 version number.
Well, format-wise this is most definitely SCI 1.1.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on February 17, 2023, 10:52:21 AM
So was this was a transitory game between SCI1.1 and SCI2? Would you classify it as an SCI1.1 game? Are the properties/features of the interpreter more like that of an SCI1.1 interpreter? It does seem to be the only game released with version 2.000.286 of the interpreter. GK1 was 2.000.000. Perhaps they were just getting ahead of their versioning numbering scheme, not anticipating what they would set for SCI2.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Kawa on February 17, 2023, 11:42:22 AM
All I looked at was the resource format, so let's look closer.

1. Script numbering-wise, no script goes over #999, and none have SCI2-style names, compared to GK1.
2. Selectors start with Y, X, view, loop, and cel. In GK1 that's plane, Y, X, Z, scaleX, scaleY.

Gabriel Knight 1 is in all respects but the resource map format an SCI2 game. This EcoQuest is an SCI11 game in all respects but the version number.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on February 17, 2023, 08:50:30 PM
So I guess that the version number of the interpreter was just arbitrarily assigned.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Threepwang on March 23, 2023, 10:21:52 PM
About rare SCI games:

Brasoft versions of Leisure Suit Larry 5 and 6 are in the Brazilian magazine PC "Multimidia" #6 and 11, but I tested both games and they are in English only. So I don't think there is a Portuguese version.

I found Leisure Suit Larry 5 in Italian and it's an official translation I think. But the Interpreter doesn't appear with Sierra Version Tool: http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/16796244303590026334.jpg

I couldn't find Leisure Suit Larry 6 in Italian, there are only amateur translations, which makes me doubt about an official version in Italian.

On the other hand, the official German version of EcoQuest 2 has been unearthed: https://www.adventure-treff.de/forum/topic?t=89&start=167

It's really not obvious, there are obviously Polish editions, like the one from Torin, Russian versions like the one from Larry 7 by SoftClub...

Personally I'm desperately looking for the Japanese versions of:
King's Quest VII / キングスクエストVII / キングスクエストVII (PC Windows)
Lighthouse / ライトハウス (PC DOS/Windows)
Phantasmagoria 1 / ファンタズム / Phantasm (PC Windows)
Police Quest: SWAT / ポリスクエスト SWAT (PC DOS/Windows)
RAMA 宇宙のランデヴー (PC Windows)
Shivers / シバースー ～呪われた博物館～ (PC Windows)

References:
https://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php/SCI/Japanese_Games
https://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php?title=SCI/Sierra_Pioneer

So, If any member has a lead or knows a Japanese Abandonware site, I'm very interested :)


Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Threepwang on March 24, 2023, 06:38:49 AM
@OmerMor,

Hi OmerMor!

International Versions:
Leisure Suit Larry 6 (French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish)

Please, do you have a source for the official Italian translation of Leisure Suit Larry 6. I can't find anything that indicates its existence. I know you have a long experience with SCI games, that's why I'm asking you ;)
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on March 24, 2023, 10:02:05 AM
Would the LSL6 Italian be a fan translation? Enrico Rolfi wrote his TraduSCI for translating SCI games, specifically GK2 to Italian. Not sure how many games have been translated using his tool, but I am not aware of too many Sierra games with an official Italian localization.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: OmerMor on March 24, 2023, 06:23:08 PM
Quote from: Threepwang on March 24, 2023, 06:38:49 AM
Please, do you have a source for the official Italian translation of Leisure Suit Larry 6. I can't find anything that indicates its existence. I know you have a long experience with SCI games, that's why I'm asking you ;)

My source was HwM, back in the original thread over at MegaTokyo:
https://helmet.kafuka.org/megatokyo/topic_1690.html#:~:text=LSL6%20has%20a%20German%2C%20French%2C%20Spanish%2C%20Italian%20%26%20Portuguese%20version

I never had any information about this version myself.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Threepwang on March 25, 2023, 08:32:17 AM
Quote from: Collector on March 24, 2023, 10:02:05 AM
Would the LSL6 Italian be a fan translation? Enrico Rolfi wrote his TraduSCI for translating SCI games, specifically GK2 to Italian. Not sure how many games have been translated using his tool, but I am not aware of too many Sierra games with an official Italian localization.

In fact, there are 13 Sierra SCI games officially translated into Italian. 14 if one day I find the proof that LSL6 exists in Italian. But is right, because there is no original Italian edition, our Italian friends have translated the game.

To tell you the truth, I'm cleaning my Sierra archives and completing them in order to participate in the development of Sierra Version Tool. So I'm going by country and by game or series of games, then I'm going to send them all to dear @Boohyaka, who will know how to import them in the interpreters and send them to you. He has more skills than me.

Moreover, it's a great thing to know the official versions in each language. I'm in contact with a lot of people to do this. It's long, but I'm making good progress.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Threepwang on March 25, 2023, 08:44:44 AM
Quote from: OmerMor on March 24, 2023, 06:23:08 PM
Quote from: Threepwang on March 24, 2023, 06:38:49 AM
Please, do you have a source for the official Italian translation of Leisure Suit Larry 6. I can't find anything that indicates its existence. I know you have a long experience with SCI games, that's why I'm asking you ;)

My source was HwM, back in the original thread over at MegaTokyo:
https://helmet.kafuka.org/megatokyo/topic_1690.html#:~:text=LSL6%20has%20a%20German%2C%20French%2C%20Spanish%2C%20Italian%20%26%20Portuguese%20version

I never had any information about this version myself.

Thanks for the quick reply OmerMor, it's hard to be sure with only one source. Maybe it's a lost version, there are so many official translations that have disappeared. Including games from the ADL era.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on March 25, 2023, 11:18:52 AM
I have been going through my own collection with the Version Tool in an effort to fill in the blanks of its database. It is a good way to find and fix bugs that I missed. I have made a number of  changes to help speed up this task. In the process I have uncovered a few bugs and have been fixing them. I have added quite a few pre AGI games and Apple II disk images. Also, I am adding support for LSCI and some of the newer Sierra games.

I have added a few features to assist with adding new, unrecognized games. Now, if it does not recognize a game a file browser dialog will open to the selected directory to select a file to get the hash from to ID the game. Then the new game editor will open with the hash target and its hash already filled in. It will guess the name of the release based upon the the folder's name. All of the fields are editable to make corrections. You can manually check the interpreter's version and open readme/version/QA files to look for version numbers, dates, etc.

I have added a search function to search a number of sites for the release to fill in the missing pieces. Once as many of the fields have been filled in as can be, clicking the write export ID file button will write a file that can be uploaded for me to add to the game to the database.

I will be uploading a new version of the tool in a few days after I have bug checked the new code and do a little cleanup.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Boohyaka on March 25, 2023, 06:25:55 PM
I've discovered this guy and we've been talking quite a lot recently, I'll help him validate/complete his already impressive collection with my own fluxes. This is probably today's best ongoing effort for a complete database and validated original dumps and images of all Sierra games:

https://archive.org/details/20220303_20220303_0527

He's also actively developing an image checking/cleaning/manipulation tool that may be useful to you and your own fluxes, Collector: https://github.com/Digitoxin1/DiskImageTool

If you (or anyone else) have your own set of fluxes or original images files missing (or needing validation) and would like to contribute, feel free to hit me up :) I'm also on his Discord that is advertised on the archive page. He's also fluxing beyond Sierra and has many other collections on archives: https://archive.org/details/@digitoxin

It's a sublime preservation effort of original media in unaltered form! Of course that's a bit different from what you are doing @Threepwang with the fan translations and all, but a very important cause nonetheless :)

Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Threepwang on March 27, 2023, 02:54:04 AM
Quote from: Boohyaka on March 25, 2023, 06:25:55 PM
I've discovered this guy and we've been talking quite a lot recently, I'll help him validate/complete his already impressive collection with my own fluxes. This is probably today's best ongoing effort for a complete database and validated original dumps and images of all Sierra games:

https://archive.org/details/20220303_20220303_0527

He's also actively developing an image checking/cleaning/manipulation tool that may be useful to you and your own fluxes, Collector: https://github.com/Digitoxin1/DiskImageTool

If you (or anyone else) have your own set of fluxes or original images files missing (or needing validation) and would like to contribute, feel free to hit me up :) I'm also on his Discord that is advertised on the archive page. He's also fluxing beyond Sierra and has many other collections on archives: https://archive.org/details/@digitoxin

It's a sublime preservation effort of original media in unaltered form! Of course that's a bit different from what you are doing @Threepwang with the fan translations and all, but a very important cause nonetheless :)

Yep, resource conservation is key. It's a great thing to catalogue everything.

It's a shame that Sierra games have so many bugs. Also the original translations are very poor. I think the worst in terms of bugs is QFG4.

I have a question: When the version and the interpreter are the same, but the hash is different, is it the same game or is it an alternative version?
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on March 27, 2023, 10:18:46 PM
Quote from: Threepwang on March 27, 2023, 02:54:04 AM
Yep, resource conservation is key. It's a great thing to catalogue everything.

It's a shame that Sierra games have so many bugs. Also the original translations are very poor. I think the worst in terms of bugs is QFG4.

I have a question: When the version and the interpreter are the same, but the hash is different, is it the same game or is it an alternative version?

I grabbed that archive. Painfully slow going through archive.org. It will take sometime to go through the fluxes to add them into my collection. I have not done any new streams for a while since my 5.25" floppy drive died and the price on them has shot up.

As to the Version Tool, I am starting to go through it to see what releases it has that are missing in my collection. It did have one of the earliest versions of KQ4, version 1.000.106, interpreter 0.000.247. It predates SCI's ability to accept external patch files. There does seem to be one earlier release that has interpreter 0.000.247, but I don't know what game version it is or anything more about it. If anyone knows about it, please let me know.

Where are you getting the different hash? Through the tool? If so, the hash generator accessible through the tool menu item was simply generating the wrong hash. That is the problem with a project that has say on the back burner for years. You forget things. The SCI method to get the MD5 hash does what SVM does. It only reads up to the first 5000 bytes of the target file into the byte array. This is to speed things up when scanning larger files. It also generates hashes consistent with SVM. The stand alone hash generator was using the entire file. The current version, which I will probably upload towards the end of the week uses the same method.

ETA: the MPC version of QfG4 is far less buggy than the floppy version. It still has a couple of timer bugs that are solved by the NRS patches.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Threepwang on March 28, 2023, 12:49:56 AM
Quote from: Collector on March 27, 2023, 10:18:46 PM
Quote from: Threepwang on March 27, 2023, 02:54:04 AM
Yep, resource conservation is key. It's a great thing to catalogue everything.

It's a shame that Sierra games have so many bugs. Also the original translations are very poor. I think the worst in terms of bugs is QFG4.

I have a question: When the version and the interpreter are the same, but the hash is different, is it the same game or is it an alternative version?

I grabbed that archive. Painfully slow going through archive.org. It will take sometime to go through the fluxes to add them into my collection. I have not done any new streams for a while since my 5.25" floppy drive died and the price on them has shot up.

As to the Version Tool, I am starting to go through it to see what releases it has that are missing in my collection. It did have one of the earliest versions of KQ4, version 1.000.106, interpreter 0.000.247. It predates SCI's ability to accept external patch files. There does seem to be one earlier release that has interpreter 0.000.247, but I don't know what game version it is or anything more about it. If anyone knows about it, please let me know.

Where are you getting the different hash? Through the tool? If so, the hash generator accessible through the tool menu item was simply generating the wrong hash. That is the problem with a project that has say on the back burner for years. You forget things. The SCI method to get the MD5 hash does what SVM does. It only reads up to the first 5000 bytes of the target file into the byte array. This is to speed things up when scanning larger files. It also generates hashes consistent with SVM. The stand alone hash generator was using the entire file. The current version, which I will probably upload towards the end of the week uses the same method.

ETA: the MPC version of QfG4 is far less buggy than the floppy version. It still has a couple of timer bugs that are solved by the NRS patches.

Thanks for your explanations. Here is a screenshot of two LSL3 versions:
http://www.image-heberg.fr/files/16799784701195083359.jpg

The version and the interpreter are similar, but not the hash. However one offers 8 RESOURCE.001 files and the other only 4, this is due to the different floppy disk support of the time. But can we consider that it is the same game?

In any case for a translator, it changes everything, because the resources of one are not similar to the resources of the other, which requires to extend the compatibility of the translation patch. But this is a specific problem for people who want to translate a game.

I hope I'm not too confusing. It's interesting, I try to help and understand better too.

Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Kawa on March 28, 2023, 06:50:45 AM
I'd say the resources of one are not just similar but outright identical to the other, in this case. They're the exact same resources, merely spread out differently. The hash for the map file is different because the spread is different. This is obvious.

I can in fact confirm this with the fact the LSL3 source contains bat files and makevols scripts to create both "360" and "720" versions. In fact, there's an "overnite.bat" that does everything short of actually copying things to diskettes, for both four and eight disk versions. Hence the name. They're nightly builds, and they come in both 5.25" and 3.5", from the exact same resources.

If the 5.25" version is appreciably rarer in the wild today than the 3.5", I think translators may not need to worry about supporting the latter. Might simply not be worth the hassle.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Threepwang on March 28, 2023, 10:11:41 AM
Quote from: Kawa on March 28, 2023, 06:50:45 AM
I'd say the resources of one are not just similar but outright identical to the other, in this case. They're the exact same resources, merely spread out differently. The hash for the map file is different because the spread is different. This is obvious.

I can in fact confirm this with the fact the LSL3 source contains bat files and makevols scripts to create both "360" and "720" versions. In fact, there's an "overnite.bat" that does everything short of actually copying things to diskettes, for both four and eight disk versions. Hence the name. They're nightly builds, and they come in both 5.25" and 3.5", from the exact same resources.

If the 5.25" version is appreciably rarer in the wild today than the 3.5", I think translators may not need to worry about supporting the latter. Might simply not be worth the hassle.

Hi Kawa,
That was the response I expected. Now I understand. Thank you for taking the time to explain. It makes sense.  :)

Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on March 28, 2023, 10:26:26 AM
I only have the 3.5" version, so couldn't complete that entry. The map file, as Kawa pointed out is different because of the different layout of the resources. The map and volume files are different, but contain the same resources spread out over a different number of volume files. This can allow the tool to ID that difference. The media information was missing from the 5.25" entry. If it had included that info it would have been immediately apparent what the difference was. I have added this to the 5.25" entry. There are several missing items in the release entries. This is the kind of information that I need to flesh out the database. It was gathered from several different sources including my own games. It is hard to complete the entries for games I do not have

Let me know if you find any more.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Collector on March 28, 2023, 10:29:05 AM
Quote from: Kawa on March 28, 2023, 06:50:45 AM
If the 5.25" version is appreciably rarer in the wild today than the 3.5", I think translators may not need to worry about supporting the latter. Might simply not be worth the hassle.

If the translations are via patch files I don't think it would make much difference which release the patch was applied to.
Title: Re: Rare SCI Games
Post by: Kawa on March 28, 2023, 10:36:42 AM
Quote from: Collector on March 28, 2023, 10:29:05 AM
If the translations are via patch files I don't think it would make much difference which release the patch was applied to.
But I happen to know that certain strings are part of the script resources, not text. Stuff like window captions. Do you include entire copies of the script code, or do you patch them? The former, you're in legal hot water. The latter, you bind yourself to a specific version of the game including these different disk sizes.