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General and Everything Else => The Games and other Sierra Adventure stuff => Topic started by: OmerMor on January 24, 2025, 06:37:23 PM
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I'm certain most of you are already aware of the difference in graphics between "old" and "new" SCI versions of KQ4:
The PC SCI version 1.000.106 and 1.000.111 had the original detailed graphics. For later versions (1.003.006 onwards), Sierra would simplify the background graphics to make the game fit on one 5.25 inch disk less, removing background detail and separate night pictures.
I collected the following articles on the subject for your enjoyment:
- The (archived) OG from 2008: https://web.archive.org/web/20140908103421/http://queststudios.com/smf/index.php?topic=2802.0 (https://web.archive.org/web/20140908103421/http://queststudios.com/smf/index.php?topic=2802.0)
- The Cutting Room Floor: https://tcrf.net/King%27s_Quest_IV:_The_Perils_of_Rosella#Revision_Differences (https://tcrf.net/King%27s_Quest_IV:_The_Perils_of_Rosella#Revision_Differences)
- The Sierra Help Pages' wiki: http://sciwiki.sierrahelp.com/index.php/King%27s_Quest_IV:_The_Perils_of_Rosella#Screenshots (http://sciwiki.sierrahelp.com/index.php/King%27s_Quest_IV:_The_Perils_of_Rosella#Screenshots)
- OneShortEye: https://youtu.be/XLwQbIUklzo?t=250 (https://youtu.be/XLwQbIUklzo?t=250)
I'm also certain you're all familiar with the AGI version of KQ4 with it's own reduced graphics.
BUT - did you know there are different AGI versions as well with their own different background graphics? I certainly didn't.
Recently, Sluicebox from ScummVM added support for the Apple II AGI games (not to be confused with the Apple IIgs AGI ). I noticed that this version of KQ4 has simplified backgrounds, probably to conserve disk space.
I attached examples from picture 18. I also added the same picture 18 from both SCI versions.
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I'm still waiting for someone to discover a Japanese version of KQ4 with Harajuku Rosella sprites.
Edit: Also, none of those links mention that if you were able to enter the ogre's house at night and look through the keyhole, the window shows that it's dark outside. Attached below is a patch I made a few years ago that allows you to open the door at night. I forget if the bedroom window is also night or not.
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NRS noted the differences and the result was his "Ultimate KQ4 patch. I wrote an NSIS script to upgrade an SCI DOS version to ease applying his patch. http://forums.sierrahelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=3925&start=60#p53395
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NRS noted the differences and the result was his "Ultimate KQ4 patch. I wrote an NSIS script to upgrade an SCI DOS version to ease applying his patch. http://forums.sierrahelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=3925&start=60#p53395
I am well aware of the ultimate NRS version, but that is all about the SCI versions.
What was new to me was that there are also 2 visually distinct AGI versions as well.
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I got that, but as an aside I was reminded of the installer I did for the NRS patcher. The Wiki page I did was based on information that NRS pointed out the differences before he did his patcher.
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That's really interesting to see how much attention they put into this one game...
Not just making it completely in two different engines, but making two sets of backgrounds for each engine.
Did any other games get this special treatment, or was King's Quest special because it was their flagship series?
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That's really interesting to see how much attention they put into this one game...
Not just making it completely in two different engines, but making two sets of backgrounds for each engine.
Did any other games get this special treatment, or was King's Quest special because it was their flagship series?
I find it amazing.
I'm not aware of other games that got this treatment, but I'll have to compare other Apple II AGI games as well.
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I think that the main reason that KQ4 was done in both is that it was the first SCI game and many customers still did not have the hardware required for SCI. As far as SCI goes, there were a number of EGA vs VGA releases for similar reasons. All of these had exchange forms to trade in VGA versions for EGA versions for those that could not run the VGA versions, just as KQ4 came with on to trade in the SCI disks for an AGI replacement.
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That doesn't explain why graphical changes were made to both the AGI and SCI versions For the IBM SCI version, I know that there were versions on 9 and 8 360K floppies (I had the 8 disk version). Abandonware sites seem to suggest that one of the Apple II versions came on three disks (dunno which one and I'm not itching to try). Maybe the cut down version is smaller.
Interestingly, Sierra had this Prolog-based tool for AGI that optimized the disk layout. They didn't make a similar one for SCI - with SCI it was all manual work.
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I've been fascinated with the Apple II AGI interpreter for quite some time now. It's amazing that all but one of the AGI games were released for the Apple II, including KQ4 and Gold Rush. It is what gives me hope that one day I might be able to write an AGI interpreter for other 6502 based machines. I am thinking that the Oric might be a possibility. Someone is already working on one for the BBC Micro.
When I was looking at it a year or two back, it was obvious how much this particular AGI platform (i.e. Apple II) was Jeff Stephenson's baby. When you bring up the dialog for the interpreter version, it only mentions Jeff's name. Example attached for KQ4.
Jeff was the one that ported the AGI interpreter to the Apple II in the first place (in 1984), and it would seem that he "owned" the further development on that for the duration of its lifetime.
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I looked at a few other Apple II AGI games, and was not able to spot any graphical differences.
Perhaps the pictures in KQ4 were more elaborate and had too many commands for the Apple II to handle?
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"Software Crafts"? Was he a contractor at that point?
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Yeah, I had the same thought when I saw that. It would be an interesting part of the history, in fact it is interesting that he put the name of his company within the interpreter version pop-up. Multiple apple II games show this, e.g. PQ1 attached. I haven't checked them all though. The earlier games probably wouldn't have this.
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I looked at a few other Apple II AGI games, and was not able to spot any graphical differences.
Perhaps the pictures in KQ4 were more elaborate and had too many commands for the Apple II to handle?
Did the Gold Rush pictures look the same? That is another one that strikes me as having more elaborate pictures.
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Did the Gold Rush pictures look the same? That is another one that strikes me as having more elaborate pictures.
I get an error trying to run it in scummvm: "WARNING: AgiLoader_A2: disk 5 not found!"
Do you have a copy which scummvm can run?
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I get an error trying to run it in scummvm: "WARNING: AgiLoader_A2: disk 5 not found!"
Do you have a copy which scummvm can run?
I assume we have the same copy, as my one also doesn't work in scummvm. It does run in the Apple II emulator I'm using though (JACE).
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Jeff Stephenson discusses how he ported the AGI interpreter to the Apple IIe at 55:00 in the following interview:
https://youtu.be/K3s0nW1FBN8?si=0iYqh4iMUEm8Vnkz&t=3300
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Yeah, I've listened to that one a few times over the past couple of years. It's great, especially the early stuff about the King's Quest project.
The Apple IIe was supposedly released at the start of 1983, when the King's Quest IBM PCJR project was in its early days. Sierra had obviously created a lot of Apple II games before that, but it would have been the older models. The Apple II+ supported up to 64K, which would have ruled it out, but with the IIe supporting more memory, it opened the door to Jeff trying to squeeze it in. It is interesting what he mentions about the first 256 bytes of memory. I don't know much about the Apple IIe yet but I plan to one day disassemble the 6502 code for the Apple IIe AGI interpreter to see how it works, which would be a first step towards potentially writing something for another 6502 based machine. Some sort of similar memory bank switching mechanism would need to be used, as the standard 6502 can only address 64K.
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I started writing a 65c02 port of the AGI engine for the modern retro computer the Commander X16. It uses 512k banked ram in addition to the main 64k. So far memory hasn't been much of an issue. It does need careful management though. The hardest parts are dealing with the animation subsystems (ie views, priority, and buffering). The CX16 has a decent graphics card - the VERA with 128k of VRAM which helps.
Program code is about 30kb (give or take). That includes look up tables etc.
Attached is a gif of it loading Kings Quest 2 - you can see the glitchy view for the intro which is what I'm working on now. Loading is slow, but everything else is acceptable. It's slightly slower than say a Tandy 1000.
There's another guy making one in C for the CX16 which is a lot further along, but I'm not sure if it's still progressing. My idea was that if I could get it working on the CX16, then other 6502 systems would be worth a look. Even the Commodore 64 might be feasible, and with a lot of blood sweat and tears the NES might even be possible (with a few custom mappers).