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Messages - Cryptonomic

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Mega Tokyo SCI Archive / Re:[Question] Creating a Game - No Template
« on: June 16, 2003, 06:45:10 AM »
AH HA! Finally got it.

You have to create the Vocab.996 and Vocab.997 files as well then add them as resources. Also, critical step here: remove resmap.tmp. Once I removed that file, the corruption errors went away and so did most of my problems.

Now I can edit my Main.sc and Game.sh files in the Script Editor and have them as part of my game. I can also add resources without problem.

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Mega Tokyo SCI Archive / Re:[Question] Creating a Game - No Template
« on: June 16, 2003, 06:30:15 AM »
Have you tried the Resource Manager that came with the SCI Graphic Studio. It creates the resource.map file.

Yes, the resource.map file is created the moment you create a blank game. Two files are in your blank game directory: resource.map and game.ini.

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EDIT: After adding an resource it creates the resource.001 file too. Now open it up in SCI Studio and you have a brand new blank game.

Right, I seem to see that as well. In my steps, basically what I did is create the minimum game script (an sc file) that the Help file says SCI0 needs. However, in order to do that, you have to create a Vocab file - specifically Vocab.000. So I do that. (At first I just made a few entries in a completely new one; you can also just import an existing Vocab.000.) At this part there are no other resources, as there probably would not be in a brand new game.

However, if I just try to add this Vocab.000 in at the point of creating the new game, it cannot do it because there is no resource.001 file. If I rebuild first, then that resource.001 file is created and then I could add the Vocab.000 file. And I realize that can also work with a resource type as well (such as View or Pic).

But here is where the main problem seems to happen....

When you try to put the all-important script in your new game, it seems you cannot even get started. To wit, I create a new script and I have to use the Script Editor on the main toolbar, not from the Game Explorer because there are no scripts at this point. I can create the script and I save it as Main.sc. Now if I try to compile it I get: "Unable to open vocab.000 for reading." I understand that is because this script is currently "loose" and not part of the game.

But then how do you get the script into the game? You cannot import it because the file is just Main.sc and not Main.sco. But I cannot compile it to Main.sco because it is not part of the game! There is sort of a vicious circle here.

Now here appears to be the solution ....

You cannot do this from within SCI Studio. You have to get the stand-alone Script Compiler. Then copy your main.sc and your Vocab.000 to that directory. Then run scc.exe on your Main.sc file. That will create two files: Main.sco and script.000. You can now import script.000 into your blank game and it will work fine.

Of course, the problem now is you can still not edit that script, even if you keep the Main.sc and Main.sco files in the directory of your blank game. And another problem is still that if you try to rebuild you will still get those exact same errors that I mentioned before. (The new tutorial I am writing also covers writing a game from scratch, which is why I am investigating different possibilities. Basically one part of the tool is intrasparent, the other is not. That is the conclusion I have come to.)

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Mega Tokyo SCI Archive / Re:[Question] Creating a Game - No Template
« on: June 15, 2003, 09:31:30 AM »
In an attempt to keep the thread on topic, I am still wondering what I am doing wrong with my above description.

I am assuming that I am not the only one that has tried to explore SCI Studio in some depth, so any input/advice or whatever is greatly appreciated.

Even if we take only two elements from what I discussed above, I would be curious about these two:

(1) How is a resource.001 file actually created in the first place? (Is it via the rebuild or is there some other step that should happen? To what extent does the resmap.tmp file play a part in this?)

(2) How do I get a loose script file into a new game? (I want to create a brand new script and then get that into the resource package, without causing a corruption.)

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Mega Tokyo SCI Archive / Re:Cannot compile a second Room script
« on: June 15, 2003, 08:52:24 AM »
SS 3.00-3.01 treats the Script editor executed by clicking on the "Script" editor icon on the main toolbar as a stand alone editor for lose files, where as the Script Editor executed from within the explorer is an editor for the game's scripts.

As a question on this, then, let us say that you did use the stand-alone Script Editor (via the main toolbar). How do you get that loose script into the current game? (I am assuming there must be some way to "import" it in. I would guess "Add Resource" but that does not seem to work.)

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Mega Tokyo SCI Archive / Re:[Question] Creating a Game - No Template
« on: June 15, 2003, 06:51:15 AM »
Same here, now I fully understand that I have to draw all the graphics (and rip a couple of course), but I want to know, if simply a good knowledge of C++ required to make a game with SCI Studio?

Speaking for myself, my knowledge of C++ has not really helped nor hindered in learning SCI. SCI has classes and instances, but the conceptual details of those are a little different in SCI but the overall concepts (i.e., Object A is an instance of Class ABC) are very similar, just as would be the case for any object-oriented language.

My problem right now is not really the language behind SCI but the interconnections of the files when starting a game from scratch. The template provides the framework (just as the Visual C++ AppWizard provides a framework). What I am trying to do is step outside of the framework, at least for a little while, and look at how the framework is built from the ground-up. I highly recommend that practice to anyone who is learning a language (SCI, Java, C++, etc).

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Mega Tokyo SCI Archive / Re:[Question] Creating a Game - No Template
« on: June 14, 2003, 02:49:24 PM »
The template took me a couple months to create. Making a game from scratch is only for experts.

Well that is what I am trying to become! :)

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There's really no point in creating an empty game as you will not be able to do much without completely recreating the class system anyway. The class system contains 29 scripts, 63 classes, countless variables, instances, etc.

But humor me. As a practical exercise, the bare minimum needed to get a game working is what I have, at least according to the help file. I realize to get a full game working I would need all those other sc files. But just to get the bare minimum working is what I was looking at.

That said, keep in mind that I am also doing things based off of the template itself. In fact, I generally spend most of my time doing that and I certainly realize that is the way to go. But there is often no better way to entirely learn code frameworks (like the Class System) other than by forcing yourself to build it up by hand. (It is like learning Windows programming in C++. Yes, you can use MFC but it is much better to learn, at least at some point, how to build a Windows program from scratch without relying on AppWizards and ClassWizards.) Already by playing around with creating a game from scratch, I have learned lots of little interesting things about SCI and how things are compiled and then combined.

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Mega Tokyo SCI Archive / Re:[Observation] Said function
« on: June 14, 2003, 11:22:22 AM »
Has anyone determined why some of these things in my previous post do not work?

I ask because I am writing a new SCI tutorial and it is hard to explain why some things simply do not work. None of this is really covered, hence the new tutorial. I am most curious why the following does not work:

(if (Said('look/at/me'))
   Print ("You look sort of pixellated.")
)

I am curious about that particularly since the tutorial has an example almost exactly like this, the only difference being that it says (Said('look/at/tree').

By the way, I know there are different ways to get "look at me" to work, but according to the Help file and to the tutorial the above way should work. Since it does not, at least for me, I am curious what I am doing wrong or what I am missing.

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Mega Tokyo SCI Archive / [Question] Creating a Game - No Template
« on: June 14, 2003, 07:16:46 AM »
Kind of a long post here so hopefully some of the experts will bear with me and help me see where I am going wrong. (This might help others who approach SCI Studio the same way I did.)

In SCI Studio 3, I create a new game based on an empty game. Since this feature is able to be used, I choose to use it. I copy the main SCI interpreter files into my game directory. (These files are: std.drv, adl.drv, sciv.exe, joystick.drv, ibmkbd.drv, gm.drv, and ega320.drv.)

Now, in order to even compile a script I need a vocab.000. So I open up the Vocabulary Editor from the main toolbar. I then create a simple group just to get things going. I do a "Save As" to my game directory as Vocab.000. Now, it appears you cannot just add this to your game because there is no resource file yet. However, if I hit the Rebuild button that creates resmap.tmp and resource.001. This then does allow me to use the "Save to Game" menu item on the Vocabulary Editor and this does seem to work in terms of putting Vocab.000 into my game. I then Rebuild again as this seems to be necessary.

Now I am also told in the Help documentation that the game must have a script.000 and that bare minimum to go in this file is:

(script 0)

(class Game
  (method (play)
    // Put code here
  )
)

(instance GameInstance of Game)

So I open the Script Editor and put the above in the script. I have to save the script as Main.sc let us say. Then I compile it to Main.sco. But I cannot add Main.sco to the Resources. When I try to do I get:

"The file you are trying to add, C:\BrandNew\Main.sco, is not a valid SCI resource, or does not contain a valid header."

So I add to my Main.sc file:

(include "sci.sh")

and that seems to work. When I add this line, it automatically adds Main to my game (as Script.000) but when I try to double-click on Main I get the message:

"Sorry, scripts can not be edited, only created. You can create them with the script compiler."

Now I realize you cannot edit scripts if the .sc file is not present. But in this case I have the Main.sc and Main.sco in the same directory in my game directory, just like in the template game. (And according to the Help file, that bare minimum quoted above is all I need for SCI0 to execute a game.)

Also if you Rebuild anytime after this you get the error message:

"Resource package/map file identifier mismatch! The game you are trying to open is incomplete, corrupt, or not the correct version."

Then you get the message:

"An extremely odd error occurred that should'nt have. Go figure. The game will now be closed."

This seems to not just close the game, but forces you to End Task the whole SCI Studio via the Task Manager in Windows 2000.

This was a lot to wade through so I appreciate those that took the time. Now I realize people will say: just use the template. I can do that. But obviously the choice is in there to create a game from scratch. Creating a game from scratch can be a good exercise for you to try if you want to learn how to build a game from the ground up. Plus it will make you very cognizant of how all the resources all link together, which can generally give you a great deal of insight into the overall structure of SCI. This is the case in any development language. So the real question, given my steps that I have provided, is what am I doing wrong? I realize doing a game without the template is not the best way, but for learning purposes, I am still curious about "from the ground up development".

(I think part of the problem may be how I am creating the Resource.001 file. I just create it, by proxy, by hitting the Rebuild and it seems if you do that often enough, when creating your own game, you cause that resource package/map mismatch problem.)

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[quote author=Eero R

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Just another update to this: turns out people in those countries cannot play games like "Conquest of Camelot", "Police Quest II", or "Space Quest III" either. I had them try it and the same message comes up: "Can't load RESOURCE.MAP." This is probably due to some sort of localization code not being present but I am not really sure. Again, these are English machines, which is kind of odd. But there must be something that would cause this. Note that these are games that work just fine here so perhaps Sierra did some sort of internal coding for various country codes or for other aspects. (Granted, this is only three people that I am dealing with but it is three people in totally separate countries, with English localized machines, trying to play games that work just fine here in the United States. I also confirmed that the games work fine in Britain and in Canada.)

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They should all run no matter what country you are in.

Interesting, and, based on what I have read, I would agree. But I have confirmed today that the games do not work in those countries, at least with the people I have been talking with. Basically I sent them a zipped up game with all files (that works fine here) and they cannot run it there. To a tee, each person in each country gets the same message: "Cannot load resource.map!" I will keep working with them to figure out what is going on.

I know with other programs I have written the country code for a given machine could be important unless the system took account of that when executing. I do not think this is the case here but I will keep trying some things and report back on progress.

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Mega Tokyo SCI Archive / Re:[Question] SCI - Adding Functionality
« on: May 20, 2003, 10:43:15 AM »
I'll give you some hints. Check the class system scripts for where it parses key presses. Then, use a global variable array stack to store which keys are pressed.

Thanks Brian. I see what you are talking about and it makes sense to me now. It was more a conceptual issue as I was thinking of Ego from the graphical standpoint but, in reality, it all breaks down to the key presses the user does to move Ego. (In that sense, it is a lot like the Interactive Fiction systems where the user types in responses and those can be recorded.)

And that is probably a good lesson in general. Sometimes it is not a matter of whether or not you are a good programmer with one or another system, but rather how you conceptualize the current system. Sometimes just knowing programming concepts is not enough because you need the conceptual basis behind those programming concepts as well. To someone who has worked with the system a long time (as you have, building up SCI Studio) certain things are obvious. To others that is not necessarily the case. Sometimes a nudge in the right direction is enough to get people started. Your nudge to me was exactly what I needed.

While I agree with you that given documents may not exist for certain elements of a programming language, that is where contextual documents come into play. (Witness how Qt from TrollTech or CodeSense is documented, as just two examples. A lot of it is not dedicated to just programming concepts but rather to the conceptual basis behind those concepts that allows someone to abstract behavior of the system to various situations.) But, please understand, none of this is criticism of you or SCI Studio. It is just that other aspects of life sometimes make it difficult to devote all time to one language and, as such, it helps to get pointers on forum boards like this.

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Mega Tokyo SCI Archive / Re:[Question] SCI - Adding Functionality
« on: May 19, 2003, 05:53:08 PM »
Look at the SCI Studio help file.

To be sure, I have been perusing this at various points in my research. I am not sure that the Help file shows me how to do something like the "recording" I mentioned or how to use SCI to build graphic/text editors as you mentioned. But I will keep plugging away at it. The file is definitely a great effort and I respect the amount of work that went into doing this.

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Mega Tokyo SCI Archive / Re:[Question] SCI - Adding Functionality
« on: May 19, 2003, 03:24:59 PM »
That recording is definitely possible (SCI has FileIO stuff too, so you could even record it to a file).

Is there an actual specification for the full SCI language? I know FreeSCI has their version of an SCI spec on their Web site that is related to their interpreter. But, after searching, I have not found anything of SCI in general that shows how it can be added to or how you can do various different things with it.

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As far as adventures are concerned, you could script up an LSL2/3 interface, LSL5/6 interface, LSL7 interface, Monkey Island interface, etc. Any interface you want can be done if you can script. Even the inventory is handled by the scripts.

Sounds great. But is there anything that describes, even in bare details, how to start a process like this. I have learned many programming and/or scripting languages in my time, so I am not daunted by that. I am also not looking for "hand-out" answers: I will gladly read through any amount of documentation or parse through any amount of available source code.

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Even non game related stuff. You could even write a graphic editor, or even a text editor in it!

Again, this sounds great. But I have little idea of where to begin, and it is not for lack of searching at this point. I would definitely be curious to learn more about this because it seems like SCI implementations are currently only "scratching the surface", as you say, in terms of potentially creating some interesting game scenarios.

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Mega Tokyo SCI Archive / [Observation] SCI in Different Countries
« on: May 19, 2003, 03:19:44 PM »
I noticed (what may be) an interesting thing. I created a few mini-games (not even games, really) based off the SCI Studio template and then sent those to a few people in other countries so they could see the general idea. What I seemed to have found was that the games cannot run in those countries.

Now, more specifically, I sent copies to a friend in China, one in Kazakhstan, and one in Zambia. Not one of them could play the game(s). These games run fine here. The error they would get was basically an MS-DOS prompt showing up and the text: "Cannot load resource map." In the case of Kazakhstan and Zambia, they were run on Windows 98 machines. In the case of China, my friend was running on a Windows 2000 machine. (Again, here I can play them on both operating systems.)

I guess part of my observation would be a question: I am not doing something right in order to allow these games to be played? Is there some special step for those games being played outside the country or is there some "other" file that needs to be included? (I did not think SCI needed country codes as part of its compilation into a game.)

(One other point: the operating systems were localized in the case of China and Kazakhstan but I am not sure yet of the case in Zambia. I am also uncertain if the regular Sierra games can be played in those countries but I would certainly assume this to be the case.)

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