Author Topic: Umlauts in Vocab Editor  (Read 7374 times)

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Offline troflip

Re: Umlauts in Vocab Editor
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2018, 12:34:58 PM »
fyi, I believe the 127 char limit is because the word vocab resource uses the high bit as the string terminator. So hex-editing your way around this or removing the check while saving will produce corrupt resources from the interpreter's point of view.
Correct fixes to SCI Companion are probably:
- don't do this 0-127 check if we're using the "vocabTraits_900" kind of vocab. (Maybe that's what Kawa did?)
- make SCI Companion open German SQ3 properly (since if I understand correctly, that's the SCI0-ish interpreter where >127 chars are supported?) - probably just some bugs in the version detection stuff.
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Offline Kawa

Re: Umlauts in Vocab Editor
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2018, 01:50:59 PM »
(Maybe that's what Kawa did?)
Close. There's no version check, I just made it not do the 0-127 check at any time.

Couldn't find a German SQ3 yesterday, so I used la Poursuite des Pectoraux Puissants for my minimal testing. I did confirm though that French LSL3 does use vocabs 900 and 910 as predicted, while the English version uses vocab 000.

Offline Shaklin

Re: Umlauts in Vocab Editor
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2018, 01:59:51 PM »
Maybe it's my fault, but it does not work for me.. No more "Invalid word" error message, but it do not save words with umlauts and the data is corrupt after saving.
And my own vocab.000 it can't open. Only SCI Studio 3+ can open/read it.

I uploaded both files (original vocab.000 from the game The Colonel's Bequest and my own vocab.000 with german umlauts). example word with umlaut: über | about

Thank you wala for your help :). that's very nice of you all.

Or should I export it as vocab.910? Idk... slowly it's getting too complicated for me.  :-\ :D

Offline Kawa

Re: Umlauts in Vocab Editor
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2018, 03:13:21 PM »
Or should I export it as vocab.910? Idk... slowly it's getting too complicated for me.  :-\ :D
Here's what I've found.

SCI0: no umlaut support anywhere, uses vocab.000.
SCI01: umlaut support in fonts and vocabs, uses vocab.900 for English and vocab.910 for non-English.
Colonel's Bequest is an SCI0 game, since it uses vocab.000.

My theory: If you want it to support umlauts, it must be an SCI01 game. This involves replacing the interpreter. You must also save the parser dictionary as vocab.900 instead of 000, assuming you don't need the ability to switch languages. If you do want that ability you must provide both vocab.900 (English) and vocab.910 (German), and write each string as English text#GDeutscher Text, add something to switch with, and possibly even more changes.

Edit: also you need a 902/912 pair for conjugations or whatever they are, the "happened > happen" things, and a 901/911 pair for the grammar blackbox.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 03:15:38 PM by Kawa »

Offline Daventry

Re: Umlauts in Vocab Editor
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2018, 03:29:19 PM »
Kawa agrees.
Shaklin.
For the translation of SCI0, you can use recoding, as in Spanish translations. Additional characters are in the lower half of the ASCII table. Here is an example,

Offline Kawa

Re: Umlauts in Vocab Editor
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2018, 03:33:55 PM »
That's clever. I like it.

Offline troflip

Re: Umlauts in Vocab Editor
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2018, 04:34:53 PM »
Kawa agrees.
Shaklin.
For the translation of SCI0, you can use recoding, as in Spanish translations. Additional characters are in the lower half of the ASCII table. Here is an example,

You'll still need Kawa's special "no validate" build of SCI Companion for this, of course (and also '|' isn't available to repurpose since that's the divider character for the vocab editor).
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Offline Shaklin

Re: Umlauts in Vocab Editor
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2018, 04:36:16 PM »
Quote
SCI0: no umlaut support anywhere, uses vocab.000.
Yes.. but with my vocab.000 I can use umlauts, it works in game.
If I start the game (I bought GOG Version), then I get this message:
"WARNING: SCI0: Found SCI01 vocabulary in disguise!"
But it seems the game works fine and I can use german umlauts words.

Daventry
I'm not sure if I understand you right..
For the text Editor I already edited the fonts:
https://i.imgur.com/APlAxeo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Syr3yzQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xWxSMdq.jpg
It works fine.

But in Vocab Editor you can't use that ("invalid word error").
And with the new SCICompanion (by Kawa) you get no more "invalid word error", BUT it does not save words with umlauts (if you reload it, the words are gone).


EDIT:
Oh, you mean the umlauts must be above 127 chars?
EDIT2:
Ok, that makes no sense : D
Because you have then to enter the ascii char (< for ü for example) on your keyboard. But I want to use the right umlauts on the keyboard when typing in game.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 05:08:31 PM by Shaklin »

Offline troflip

Re: Umlauts in Vocab Editor
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2018, 05:56:12 PM »
Yes.. but with my vocab.000 I can use umlauts, it works in game.
If I start the game (I bought GOG Version), then I get this message:
"WARNING: SCI0: Found SCI01 vocabulary in disguise!"
But it seems the game works fine and I can use german umlauts words.
That's a strange error message... is it using ScummVM as the interpreter or something?

And with the new SCICompanion (by Kawa) you get no more "invalid word error", BUT it does not save words with umlauts (if you reload it, the words are gone).

Right, because it's saving a SCI0 vocab resource, which only permits chars <= 127.

Looking at the version detection code in SCI Companion, it looks like the presence of vocab resource 0 tells SCI Companion that the game uses SCI0 vocab resources. Otherwise it will use SCI01 style vocab resources (which should allow saving chars >127, at least with Kawa's build). So you might be able to remove vocab 0 and replace it with a SCI01 vocab 900 and have it work? I dunno...
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Offline Shaklin

Re: Umlauts in Vocab Editor
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2018, 06:11:04 PM »
Yes, it use ScummVM.
I think i get this message, because I use my own SCI01 vocab.000 in a SCI0 game. But it works fine..

Quote
Right, because it's saving a SCI0 vocab resource, which only permits chars <= 127.
Ok, thanks for the info. I suspected that from Daventry posting. I didn't know that before.
Then I have no chance to use umlauts with the SCI0 vocab file. I can't use other ascii chars, because you have to TYPE it with your physical KEYBOARD.

Quote
Otherwise it will use SCI01 style vocab resources (which should allow saving chars >127, at least with Kawa's build). So you might be able to remove vocab 0 and replace it with a SCI01 vocab 900 and have it work? I dunno...
I think I already done that:
http://sciprogramming.com/community/index.php?topic=1781.msg11696#msg11696

Offline Collector

Re: Umlauts in Vocab Editor
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2018, 06:27:44 PM »
Might it make sense to have an SCI0.1 template game for some non-English game creation? How practical would it be to port the existing SCI0 template game to SCI0.1?
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Offline troflip

Re: Umlauts in Vocab Editor
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2018, 06:50:19 PM »
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Offline Shaklin

Re: Umlauts in Vocab Editor
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2018, 07:35:28 PM »
Collector
Or a converter tool would be good.. SCI0 vocab to SCI01.

troflip
You mean the original in resource file? That's not necessary.
If you have the vocab.000 file in game folder, then the game use this instead the original in resource file.
It's like a "patch" file.

(BTW, I do not want change/edit any original files).. I just use extern files.
Like my translation patch for Laura Bow II:
https://www.gog.com/forum/laura_bow_series/other_languages

Offline Daventry

Re: Umlauts in Vocab Editor
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2018, 02:40:56 AM »
Shaklin
Note, on monkeygames.uz there are many games of Sierra in German language.

I just yesterday read about the structure of vocab.000. I had never dealt with this issue before. There's no way to add umlauts to the vocab.000.
You have four ways.
1. Translate messages only. Typing from the keyboard to leave in English.
"open the door" not öffnen (aufmacht) die Tür
2. Translate messages and add to vocab.000:
oeffnen, ueber, dass... etc.
In read.me tell everyone how to enter commands.
3. More complicated. Edit the font.
Replace in font
: -> Ö
; -> ö
" -> Ä
'  -> ä
{ -> Ü
[ -> ü
_ -> ß
$ -> :
% -> ;
^ -> "
& -> '
In text messages replace all occurrences of a characters : on $, ; on %, " on ^, ' on &.
In vocab.000 add necessary words:
[ber (instead über)
;ffnen (instead öffnen)
T[r
da_
G'stezimmer
etc.
4. More more complicated. :)
I'm not sure that will work.
Get sciv.exe from SQ3 German or Larry3 French or Larry3 German or KQ1 (SCI remake).
These games were written with SCI01 interpreter.
Use vocab.900 instead vocab.000.
Edit vocab.910 normaly.

Offline Shaklin

Re: Umlauts in Vocab Editor
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2018, 10:15:51 AM »
Daventry
Thank you for your help :).

1. No.. everything in german or nothing :P :)
2. I thought about that too, but I'm not satisfied with that..
3. I already tried it. It makes no sense, because you can't use öäüß on your physical keyboard (if you use it and you write "öffnen", the game say "this game don't know this word"). You have to write the right char on your physical keyboard, for example [ffnen.. it is only an "optical effect".
4. Maybe I try it with sciv.exe (just curious if it works : )), but I do not want override any original files..

I think, I just use my own vocab.000. It works fine. What's wrong with my solution?
I can open it with SCI Studio 3+. The only problem is, if a word begins with an umlaut.
(http://sciprogramming.com/community/index.php?topic=1781.msg11696#msg11696)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 10:17:34 AM by Shaklin »


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