vAGI and stuff

[Joakim]

Hi all,

Just wanted to inform you that I'll be posting new builds of the Visual AGI Sound Editor regularly at the old Visual AGI beta site. I don't have the time to update the page, and absolutely not to package things nice and do the manuals at this time. So, please feel free to try the beta versions out and give me _shitloads_ with feedback on ALL bugs and features missing (I'll try to add the features missing in the beta_notes.txt, so look in that document first though)

Also, I happen to like .NET (Microsoft's new API) a lot. Therefore I've started a small project to create an "AGI.DLL" for all new .NET projects. The dll is supposed to feature all neccessary encoding and decoding of AGI resources, but right now it only does small parts of it. But check it out nevertheless, especially if you've never written any C# code before!

Both will be found at http://beta.visualagi.cjb.net in the immediate future (tonight).

/ Joakim

[Nick Sonneveld]

wow.. 4.5 megs.. I'll have to test this new version at uni!

Good work though.. I've managed to get it working on another system and I'll try it out for you.

- Nick

[Nick Sonneveld]

Is there any chance of just getting a zip file with the .exe files and the .dll's?  4.5 megs is just a little big.

- Nick

[Sami Tervo]

pack vagi to cab. that should really reduce the size.

[Brian Provinciano]

Try building it as a static exe having all it's dependencies packed in. That way, any extra stuff from the DLLs will be discarded. Also, ditch the installation utility. I just want to extract the utility to a directory and run it--which especially makes sense since it's beta.

Considering AGI Studio is 550kb or so in it's zip, a sound editor probably shouldn't be 4.5mb hehe

[Nick Sonneveld]

Well I think most of the room is taken up by the installation program.. that's why I suggested a zip file.

But that's besides the point.. I think we've exhausted the possibilities to do with the installation.. what does everybody think of the program itself?

- Nick

[Joakim]

Hehe..

I totally agree with all of you that an installation package of 4,5MB is quite over the top, since the actual sound editor is 100kB unpacked. The problem is that;

1) Not everyone have the latest version of Microsoft Installer.

2) Not everyone have the latest MFC DLL files (7.0)

3) I would like it to work for all of you with a minimum of hassle.

Nevertheless, new updates of the editor as the work progresses will be posted without the full package, as you only need to update Microsoft Installer once.

Don't you all have T1's at home?

/ Joakim

[Chris Cromer]

I haven't been able to try it... I have an impared browser and I can usually only download things that are up to maybe 1mb any higher and my download manager stuffs up by jumping in percentage even though it hasn't downloaded it. 4.2mb is just way to much for my browser Some times I even have trouble downloading things that are less than a 1mb but that is when I get a slow connection. The only way I can usually download things larger than that is by someone e-mailing them to me or if I use and ftp program and download it directly from a server.

[Joel]

Unfortunately, it still suffers from lack of documentation and intuitive interface. I can't really take the time to play with it for more than a few minutes, and I haven't figured out how to do anything yet. Unfortunately, that also means I can't comment on the program any more than that because I don't know any more than that.

[Joakim]

Unfortunately, it still suffers from lack of documentation and intuitive interface. I can't really take the time to play with it for more than a few minutes, and I haven't figured out how to do anything yet. Unfortunately, that also means I can't comment on the program any more than that because I don't know any more than that.

Documentation - won't be any. Not until a proper beta is released that is. This version is purely for the possibility for all AGI interested to influence the development in a good way. (let's call it a technology preview) As soon as all features are in place, I will write proper documentation.

Intuitive interface - ? It's as intuitive as any tracker application. (Buzz, FastTracker, ScreamTracker etc) If you aren't used to them, the following is neccessary information;

The keys "Z" to "M" and "Q" to "P" is used as a virtual keyboard. (imagine a piano laid out on the keys)
The key "." clears a row.
The left pane is called the "sequencer", where you put the order of the patterns to play.
The right pane is where you edit a pattern. Doubleclick a pattern in the sequencer to open it in the pattern editor. (or rightclick-Edit, or press enter)

That's about all you need to know to create a simple song. If you can't figure it out with the above information, this sound editor is not for you.

/ Joakim

[Joel]

I am actually completely unfamiliar with tracker applications, but I'm starting to figure this thing out now.

It would be good if there were a way to remove notes in place (so that the notes following it don't move up, I mean). I also think it would be good if you could just do a right click menu or something, have an "Add note" option where you could then specify the note, the register, and the duration. That would greatly alleviate the kind of difficulty I was having learning how to use the program. I couldn't figure out how to add notes until you told me, and I only accidently figured out how to set the register. Right click menus to do that would also be good. Good user interfaces are visible. Now that I'm starting to get the idea with this thing, I'm starting to like it.

I'm having trouble with the player not going past note 15 or something. How do you get it to do that, or is that not implemented yet? I still don't completely get all the UI elements of the program, but I'm starting to understand.

[Joel]

I don't seem to be able to import an AGI sound resource into the program, either. No matter what resource I use, I'm getting an illegal operation message and Windows shuts the program down. I was able to import sound resources while the program was inside the Visual AGI shell, so this is a recent problem only.

[Nick Sonneveld]

I don't know if it's already been implemented.. but I think vAGI (and other external tools like picedit) should implement some mechanism for being called from AGI Studio.

You don't want vAGI to extract resources, that's agi studio's job.. so I thought maybe something along these lines for editing a sound from agi studio:

1) AGI Studio extracts file and saves it in windows\temp as snd1234.tmp
2) AGI Studio calls: "vagi -e c:\windows\temp\snd1234.tmp"
3) edit file and save again
4) here's where it get's hazy.. either agi studio interpreters a return code or checks to see if the temp file's modification date has changed

- Nick

[Joakim]

It would be good if there were a way to remove notes in place (so that the notes following it don't move up, I mean). I also think it would be good if you could just do a right click menu or something, have an "Add note" option where you could then specify the note, the register, and the duration. That would greatly alleviate the kind of difficulty I was having learning how to use the program. I couldn't figure out how to add notes until you told me, and I only accidently figured out how to set the register. Right click menus to do that would also be good. Good user interfaces are visible. Now that I'm starting to get the idea with this thing, I'm starting to like it.

The "right click"-method to add a note is an excellent idea. It will also be consistent with the "add pattern" in the sequencer pane. I will add that to the next beta version.

I'm having trouble with the player not going past note 15 or something. How do you get it to do that, or is that not implemented yet? I still don't completely get all the UI elements of the program, but I'm starting to understand.

I am not quite sure what you mean, so choose one of the following answers.

1) A row consists of a note in the form "X-Y ZZ", where X is the note (C,D,etc), Y is the octave (0-9) and ZZ is the attenuation (0-15 where 15 is silent)

2) The default pattern (created in a new document) is only 15 rows long. Unfortunately I haven't done the properties-dialog of a pattern, so you cannot change the row count of a pattern afterwards. It will be added to the next beta. Right now, you have to create a new pattern and change the number of rows to your wanted count. (rightclick in the sequencer->Add pattern)

But, don't forget that the whole point of a tracker is to create small parts (patterns) with unique musical parts, and then organize them in the sequencer so that you do not have to rewrite them all the time.

I will try to create some sample music to include in the next release.

/ Joakim

[Joakim]

I don't seem to be able to import an AGI sound resource into the program, either. No matter what resource I use, I'm getting an illegal operation message and Windows shuts the program down. I was able to import sound resources while the program was inside the Visual AGI shell, so this is a recent problem only.

Could you please send me a copy of the resource you are trying to import, so that I can investigate it? I have no troubles importing resources at my computer. Send your resources to the e-mail address found in the beta_notes.txt !

Are you sure that you are using the File->Import function to import AGI resources?

I am aware that there are a lot of missing parts from the error handling in the file load operations. I will try to add more error checking and file validating in the next beta version....

/ Joakim