VOGONS and the Win32 SCI/AGI interpreters...

[Stiletto]

Wasn't sure where exactly to post this, so I picked here.

Read this, please: http://vogons.zetafleet.com/showthread.php?threadid=83

There was a thought we had (to quote myself). A project:
"Suggestion for Implementation:
1. Get as many Windows versions of Sierra games as possible. AGI games, SCI games, full versions, demos, etc.
2. Get their latest patches.
3. File-compare the interpreter executables to find the latest version.
4. Figure out the workings of the SIERRA.INI file.
5. Create INI files for games that never had a Windows version?"

I believe we're not treading new ground here, so I decided to post here for feedback. Who's done some experimenting with this, either AGI or SCI games (or both)? How far did you get? Have you determined how to work around some of the error messages you might see? Which games work best with which version Windows interpreter? Any other comments?

The end result would be, hopefully, this.
1.) User has DOS version of {insert game name here}
2.) User downloads Windows "patch" for {game} which consists of the Windows Sierra SCI or AGI interpreter.
3.) User runs script or batch file which generates the appropriate Windows info files for the game - or downloads them.
4.) User now has a version of the SCI/AGI game for Windows.

With a little tweaking, this will make for a viable alternative for DOS-based Sierra titles that just don't want to work properly under Windows 9x/ME/NT4/2K/XP.

I'd prefer feedback in the thread I mentioned (registration is not required) but if you would rather respond here you may do so - I'll keep an eye on it...

- Stiletto

[Brian Provinciano]

There were no official Windows AGI interpreters. SCI interpreters past SCI0 are so different, that one Windows SCI game won't even run on another Windows SCI game's interpreter. There's no simple way of just swapping a DOS SCI game's interpreter with a Windows one. Very few, if any DOS SCI games which didn't come with a windows interpreter will run on one.

There is only one known SCI1 windows interpreter. All the rest are SCI11+, which are completely incompatible. I tried building my SCI1 DOS template for the Windows SCI1 interpreter with all the interpreter's vocabs and such, and it still didn't work.

Finally, Sierra did a terrible job on their Windows SCI1x interpreters. You generally need to switch to specific video modes for the picture to actually be more than a black screen. Sierra didn't think that computers would eventually get more than 256 colours or something, heh.

[Steven Melenchuk]

Just an interesting thought...

Would there be any way for this to work in reverse, e.g. get your WinSCI1 game to work under DOS SCI1? This might give some insight into how WinSCI1 actually handles things...

[Brian Provinciano]

SCI11 games use different script file formats, with the HEP and SCR. It would be fair amount of work to write a converter alone for those. Then there'd be the issues with resource storage and kernel functions. In many ways, SCI0 is more like SCI1 than SCI11 internally.

[Stiletto]

There were no official Windows AGI interpreters. SCI interpreters past SCI0 are so different, that one Windows SCI game won't even run on another Windows SCI game's interpreter. There's no simple way of just swapping a DOS SCI game's interpreter with a Windows one. Very few, if any DOS SCI games which didn't come with a windows interpreter will run on one.

There is only one known SCI1 windows interpreter. All the rest are SCI11+, which are completely incompatible. I tried building my SCI1 DOS template for the Windows SCI1 interpreter with all the interpreter's vocabs and such, and it still didn't work.

Finally, Sierra did a terrible job on their Windows SCI1x interpreters. You generally need to switch to specific video modes for the picture to actually be more than a black screen. Sierra didn't think that computers would eventually get more than 256 colours or something, heh.

Aw, okay. It was just a thought.

If there was some way to light a fire under FreeSCI developers to get it to a similar stage in development as NAGI or SCUMMVM, I'd do it. I'm so impatient...  

- Stiletto

[Brian Provinciano]

FreeSCI is open, so you're free to join them and help out. They are actively working on it. SCI, however, is more complicated than SCUMM, and FAR FAR more complicated than AGI, so it takes time.

[Stiletto]

There's been a few more replies in the thread I mentioned (not sure if you read it.) The person who was experimenting on this known as Nicht_Ser_Gut had this to say:
"Well, I wouldn't close the book on this. It just looks like it would be difficult and have a low success rate. Besides, you forgot to mention my (mostly) success with the "Freddy Pharcus" DOS demo. While the full game had a Windows interpreter, the DOS demo had different content (mostly text, but there was entirely different "ballad" that was on no other version that ran fine). I tried the DOS demo with the Windows interpreter from the full game, and had a reasonable amount of success.

Additionally, my 1st test with "Dagger of Amon Ra" was with the EcoQuest2 Windows interpreter, and it worked (although it also had numerous "script error" crashes)."

> FreeSCI is open, so you're free to join them and help out. They are actively
> working on it. SCI, however, is more complicated than SCUMM, and FAR
> FAR more complicated than AGI, so it takes time.

If I had an ounce of programming genius, I would. I remain, sadly, mediocre. My skills are mainly 1.) persistently and accurately searching the Internet for infomation, 2.) networking between individuals (including sweet-talking former engineers, programmers, etc.), 3.) knowing a bunch of interesting people and 4.) being able to collate, grep and otherwise organize information once I have it.

For example, I sorta introduced Vlad of VDMSound fame to MAME's YM3812 emulation author, which helped compatibility in both programs immensely - and VDMSound's super-accurate Adlib emulation has trickled down to programs like DOSBOX, DOSEMU, FreeSCI (supposedly), AdPlug, etc.. I've been useful for MAME for digging up info on old arcade components or systems. And I beta-test a variety of emulators. So I'm a well-informed, well-heeled kinda guy with good contacts. But I don't think that's the sort of person FreeSCI needs right now. If you think I am, feel free to recommend me. I do good work, if I say so myself. I'm modest to boot!

- Stiletto

[OmerMor]

Brian: Only 1 Win SCI1 game?
I know of 4 which are:
1) King's Quest 5
2) Mother Goose Enhanced
3) Mother Goose Enhanced Demo
4) Jones in the Fast Lane (CD)

They all share this annoying one feature:
They won't run my WinXP box ... not even when I check the "Win95 Compatibility" thingy that WinXP provides... too bad.  

[HWM]

The main issue is that SCI1/SCI11 interpreters are often build to work with one specific game, instead of AGI which is much more compatible. Example: Regarding SCI1, AFAIK there's only one single interpreter version that has been combined with two different games*. So even if the games partially work, there isn't an easy way around those script errors.

And while at it, didn't all the so-called "Sierra's Multimedia Line-up" SCI games include a Windows version?

And isn't it strange that Sierra made a rather crappy Windows port, compared to their DOS versions..? Since not a single Windows version (SCI32 included) works on this PC... Or are Microsoft to blame?



* - Excluding, ofcourse, the x.yyy.yyy interpreters, since they differ from each other...

[MusicallyInspired]

I know of 4 which are:
1) King's Quest 5
2) Mother Goose Enhanced
3) Mother Goose Enhanced Demo
4) Jones in the Fast Lane (CD)

my version of Laura Bow 2 has a windows version. and KQ6 and SQ4...and SQ6...and KQ7....and PQ4..tho the last 3 dont really count i guess since they are SCI32...

[Brian Provinciano]

There's only one known SCI1 windows interpreter.

For example, King's Quest 5 was indeed released for Windows, but it was modified and recompiled for the SCI11 interpreter. Also, for example, they released Space Quest III, an SCI0 game in German. However, SCI0 didn't support the whole character set, so they modified and recompiled that for SCI01. It's not that hard for them to use their original source code and recompile it for another, but it's hard to use the binaries.

As for those games that run other interpreters but crash, that's the situation. They still aren't compatible, though the run some what at first. Finding a SCI1+ game that runs on another interpreter all the way through without crashing is difficult.

Freddy Pharkas' demo which was DOS only, runs somewhat on the full Freddy Pharkas Windows interpreter, but of course--it's the same game. One was just a stripped down/incomplete one.

According to Sierra, when they started a game, they stored all the tools and the interpreter with their source code, because the interpreter wouldn't be backwards compatible. By the time the game was done, it wouldn't work on the current interpreter.